A new Forms of address and Thinking in Period thread have been started.

I am locking this thread to keep things on track.

Cheers,
FS

Perhaps we could open a new forum "In Period conversations" category, where we would hold running written correspondences In Period.

Suggested Basic rules:

1. Keep it simple and conversational, so as not to overload people.

2. Keep to modern English, or if you prefer to flex your vocabulary and use a smattering of middle English, french, latin, german, include a translation of the word or phrase in parenthesis. Others may respond in a different language, similarly posting translations. After all we're multi-national reenactors.

3. Avoid Ren-fair-isms, such as calling everyone "Milord".

4. Criticism. Keep criticism to minimal levels, and if you MUST correct someone, keep it light & inoffensive. Bruise no egos.

5. Modern Topics are permitted, but must be couched in period terms, such as Mistress Ginevra (correct form of address Gwen?) discussed.

6. Proper forms of address should be used. All participants should modify their profile to include Personna info and proper forms of address so persons of any station may know what to call you.

Maybe we should require all Off-topic posts to be of this type.

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: JeffJ ]

--------------------

I am not sure about a new forum to address it, but I am not ruling out the possibility. It would greatly depend on subcatagories. If there aren't too many then it kind of falls into the Impressions realm.

Gossip is good. We have a wonderful book, that works well for the Burgundian side of the house. All sorts of intersting things. More later...

'night.

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Nobody should call anybody "Lord" or "Lady" as none of us are peers. Someone may refer to Jeff as being their "lord" meaning that he is their master, but noone has a title so noone gets the form of address. Exceptions might be for a very low servant to be obsequious and call Jeff "my lord", but that's just recognized as being obsequious.

I am the Captain's wife, and as such I outrank all other Red Company females with the single exception of our Banker's wife Jeanette. She and I are equals, and therefore *might* address each other by our given names. However, as I've posted before, people were much more formal than they are now, and even spouses referred to each other as "Missus" and "Husband". I am likely to call Jeanette "Madam", since that is my most formal and polite form of address, but since she is not a Peer, I wouldn't call her "Lady".

Jeff, you may certainly call me "Mistress", as that is a generic English form of polite address for a married woman. You don't even need to append "Ginevra" to it, "Mistress" is fine on its own. Italians may call me "Dona Ginevra" or "Madonna", and the Germans call me "Frau Hauptman". I answer to any form of polite address, although at some point we will raise the bar to a point where I will no longer answer to "Gwen" when in 15th C. dress.

BTW, are you coming to Ft. Mac July 6,7, and 8th?

Gwen

How would a knight be addressed by his equals, and by others? A squire? Would you call the Seargeant of another company "seargeant", or something else?

If someone strays too deep or too long into the modern at an event, I usually respond by "well, we can speak of that later". They usually get the point without getting their feelings hurt.

Our magic "code phrase" is usually "Anne-Marie! Tell us a story about Margery Kempe!" (its usually m e thats straying ) this is a gentle reminder to stay in period and gives a happy alternative to talk about next.

also, I would consider that Madonna and Dona are actually just Italian for My Lady and Lady (as Madame is French)....if one is speaking in English, does it make it any more appropriate to use the term of address in another language?

Me, I think it adds enough of the "not from here and now" that it works, but that's me. also, please note that to my ear calling someone "the lady" or "Lady Anne-Marie" (ugh) is not the same as the SCA/Renn Faire "milord", which I've never seen anywhere but old medievaloide movies....

I need to browse through the Paston letters and see how they address each other...

--AM, who calls everyone madame, except the boys who are sir (not the same as Sir, by the way...) (and Archie, who gets to be mon petit chouchou )

--------------------

Is that right? My understanding is that these words are the equivalent of "Mistress", a polite way to address a woman.

Any Italian speakers out there who can answer this? I bet J.K. Vernier will know, I'll go ask him.........

(boy do I need that practice)

A matrix of class & forms of address would be of great use in determining proper form.

I have yet to establish my proper address. My personna has been slightly less than rigidly established as; well equipped man-at-arms/ minor landed gentry/ Household retainer or combination thereof.

Geoffrey Bourette/Henningsen (depending)

--------------------

--------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ginevra:
AM says: [b]"also, I would consider that Madonna and Dona are actually just Italian for My Lady and Lady (as Madame is French)....if one is speaking in English, does it make it any more appropriate to use the term of address in another language?"

Is that right? My understanding is that these words are the equivalent of "Mistress", a polite way to address a woman.

Any Italian speakers out there who can answer this? I bet J.K. Vernier will know, I'll go ask him.........

Gwen[/B]

---

hmmm...I was under the impression that "Mistress" is the anglicized version of "Maitresse" (my personal preffered term of address). Perhaps Lady/Donna is upper class and Maitress/Mistress is middle class?

(certainly nowadays "the Lady Genevra" implies a different rank than "the Mistress Genevra"....one lives in a castle and one works in a shop. One must be careful of ascribing modern connotations, though!)

again, I need to go through the paston letters and see how they address each other.

more when I find out more! unless Sr Vernier cares to chime in on the Italian perspective?

--AM

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MIS'TRESS, n. [L. magistra.]

1. A woman who governs; correlative to servant, slave, or subject. My mistress here lies murdered in her bed.

2. The female head of a family.

3. That which governs; a sovereign. Rome was mistress of the world.

4. One that commands, or has possession and sovereignty. The queen is mistress of the Indies.

5. A female who is well skilled in any thing; as, she is mistress of arithmetic.

6. A woman teacher; an instructress of a school.

7. A woman beloved and courted.

8. A woman in keeping for lewd purposes.

9. A term of contemptuous address.

LA'DY, n.

1. A woman of distinction. Originally, the title of lady was given to the daughters of earls and others in high rank, but by custom, the title belongs to any woman of genteel education.

2. A word of complaisance (pleasing deportment); used of women.

3. Mistress; the female who presides or has authority over a manor or a family.

AM said- Perhaps Lady/Donna is upper class and Maitress/Mistress is middle class?

Although that may be right, I still dunno. Intertran (http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran) translates "lady", mistress" and "woman" into the Italian "Signora". Reverse translation of "signora" comes back "Mrs.", and I can't get any translation for "dona" at all.

In French, "mistress" comes back "maitresse", "lady" comes back "Dame", and "woman" comes back "femme" . Reverse translations into English come back the same as the original.

All I have to go on now are my gut feelings about what I've read, since I don't have a reference to hand. Looking at 15th C. documents should confirm or disprove my original statements, and if I'm wrong, I'll be happy to be set right!

Main Entry: Mrs.
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural Mes·dames /mA-'däm, -'dam/
Etymology: Mrs. abbreviation of mistress; Mesdames from French, plural of Madame
Date: 1615
1 a -- used as a conventional title of courtesy except when usage requires the substitution of a title of rank or an honorific or professional title before a married woman's surname <spoke to Mrs. Doe>

So there's your "Madame" AM, if I read this right, "Mrs. Smith" is the modern equivalent of "Mistress Smith" who, as a married woman can be addressed simply as "Madam".

Now here's where it gets interesting:

Main Entry: mis·tress
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English maistresse, from Middle French, from Old French, feminine of maistre master -- more at MASTER
****Date: 15th century******
1 : a woman who has power, authority, or ownership: as a : the female head of a household b : a woman who employs or supervises servants c : a woman who is in charge of a school or other establishment d : a woman of the Scottish nobility having a status comparable to that of a master
2 a chiefly British : a female teacher or tutor b : a woman who has achieved mastery in some field
3 : something personified as female that rules, directs, or dominates <when Rome was mistress of the world>
4 a : a woman other than his wife with whom a married man has a continuing sexual relationship b archaic : SWEETHEART
*****5 a -- used archaically as a title prefixed to the name of a married or unmarried woman b chiefly Southern & Midland

So, I'm pretty confident in saying that if JeffJ is from the South or Midlands of England, he would probably call me "Mistress Ginevra" because that's how he would address the women back home. Knowing the social structure of the time as I do, I also feel pretty confident If he wasn't sure of my name, or if he felt that using my Christian name was too intimate, he might just address me as "Mistress".

This doesn't answer what the proper French or Italian form of address is though.

Maistresse: "A mistresse, dame, commandresse"
Madame: "Madame, (the title or stile of a Ladie): Madame du guichet. (The Ladie of the Wicket; (a by-word for a Midwife.)
Madamoiselle: (the title, or stile of a Gentlewoman; Mistresse.)
Madamoiselle d'une'aulne de velours, A mechanicall, or upstart Gentlewoman; the proud wife of a shopkeeper that will needs be a Gentlewoman.
Madamoiselle de la boutique (of the same ranke, and ambition.)
Madamoiselle de cinquante pour cent. The same; or may be applyed to the loftie-humored wife of an extorting Usurer."

so, according to Cotgrave, the line between dame ("lady") and Mistresse is blurry. While the title Madame (literally "my lady") is applied to a Lady (capital L), it is also applied to a midwife (ie middle class trade).

Mistress and dame seem interchangable (at least here), and madamoiselle seems more applicable to Ladies (capital L) or middle class posers, as a derogatory term.

according to Cotgrave, I get the impression that while the rules arent hard and fast, Maitresse (Mistress, Master, etc) are applicable to our station, Madame (Lady, Madonna, Donna, etc) may be indeed for higher stations, depending on the usage.

While I may prefer to be addressed as Maitresse, of course I will not be so rude as to refuse proffered courtesy in being styled Lady, no matter how misguided .

hmmmm....if I call people madamoiselle, how many will know if I could mean it as a backhanded insult?

this is fun! cant wait to hear about other languages, or if someone has a French dictionary more appropriate for 15th century....

-AM

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"While I may prefer to be addressed as Maitresse, of course I will not be so rude as to refuse proffered courtesy in being styled Lady, no matter how misguided.

Hypothetical question- how do you think a 15th C. middle class woman would act if someone called her "Lady"? Would she take it as a slam? Would she feel she was being indirectly accused of being a poseur?

Now of course there's the problem of how to be addressed while at an SCA event like Pennsic, where forms of address are reversed- just anyone is a "Lady", and master artisans are "titled peers" with the non-specific middle class form "Mistress".

This isn't a problem for you AM because you are an SCA "Mistress", but I'm not. So if I call you "Mistress, I'm in the right, but if you call me "Mistress", I'm a poseur. However, if you call me "Lady", I'm *still* a poseur!!! Ack!

And don't think I'm going to let you get away with calling me "Gwen" either, girl-o!

Gwen

My head hurts now!

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I. As a designation for a woman.

1. A mistress in relation to servants or slaves; the female head of a household. Obs.
The 18th c. instances in brackets seem to represent a redevelopment of this sense from sense 6a.

c825 Vesp. Psalter cxxii[i]. 2 Swe swe ean menenes hondum hlafdian hire. a1000 Laws of Penitents ii. §4 in Thorpe Anc. Laws II.
184 if hwylc wif..hire wifman swing & heo urh a swingle wyr dead..fæste seo hlæf~die .vii. ear. a1100 Ags. Voc. in
Wr.-Wülcker 310/26 Materfamilias, hiredes moder oe hlæfdie. a1225 Ancr. R. 4 Ant eos riwle nis bute vorto serui e oer. e
oer is ase lefdi: eos is ase uften. c1250 Gen. & Ex. 967 For sien he bi abram slep. Of hire leuedi nam he no kep. 1382 WYCLIF
Ps. cxxii[i]. 2 As the een of the hondmaide, in the hondis of hir ladi. Prov. xxx. 23 Bi an hand womman, whan she were eir of hir
ladi. [1718 Freethinker No. 17. 116 Her Maid..lisps out to me that her Lady is gone to Bed. a1745 SWIFT Direct. Servants iii. (1745)
50 When you are sent on a Message, deliver it in your own Words..not in the Words of your Master or Lady.]

2. a. A woman who rules over subjects, or to whom obedience or feudal homage is due; the feminine
designation corresponding to lord. Now poet. or rhetorical, exc. in lady of the manor. In OE. used spec. (instead
of cwén, QUEEN) as the title of the consort of the king of Wessex (afterwards of England).

a1000 O.E. Chron. an. 918 Her Æelflæd forferde Myrcena hlæfdie. 1038-44 Charter of Ælfwine in Kemble Cod. Dipl. IV. 76
Eadweard cinge and Ælfyfu seo hlefdie, and Eadsie arcebisceop. c1205 LAY. 6310 Bruttes nemnede a laen æfter ar lafuedi. 1382
WYCLIF Isa. xlvii. 7 Thou agreggedist the oc gretli, and seidest, In to euermor I shal ben a ladi. 1387 TREVISA Higden (Rolls) IV. 129
e laste lady of Cartage hadde rit suche a manere ende as Dydo e firste lady hadde. c1450 Merlin 362 ‘And also’, quod she, ‘I am
lady of the reame cleped the londe susteyne’. 1481 CAXTON Myrr. II. ii. 65 Asia the grete..taketh the name of a quene that somtyme was
lady of this regyon and was callid Asia. 1562 WINET Cert. Tractates i. Wks. 1888 I. 10 We suspect nocht zoure gentle humanitie,..to
be offendit with vs zour pure anis, bot our Souerane Ladyis fre liegis. 1590 SPENSER F.Q. I. Introd. 4 Great Ladie of the greatest Isle.
c1630 RISDON Surv. Devon §43 (1810) 50 Beatrix de Vallibus was lady of this land. 1633 MILTON Arcades 105 Bring your Flocks,
and live with us, Here ye shall have greater grace, To serve the Lady of this place. 1711 Act 9 Anne in Lond. Gaz. No. 4870/1 Any Lord
or Lady of a Manor might appoint several Game-keepers. 1832 TENNYSON Dream Fair Women 97 No marvel, sovereign lady: in fair
field Myself for such a face had boldly died.

b. transf. and fig. Obs.

a1225 Ancr. R. 176 et fleschs wolde awiligen & bicomen to ful itowen touward hire lefdi, if hit nere ibeaten. 1382 WYCLIF Isa. xlvii.
5 Thou shalt no more be clepid the ladi of reumes [1611 the Ladie of kingdomes]. 1565 COOPER Thesaurus s.v. Auspex, Musa
auspice..the ladie of learnyng beyng our guide. 1587 GOLDING De Mornay xvi. 265 The Spirit of ours..was free of it selfe, and Ladie of=
the bodie, and therefore could not receyue her first corruption from the bodie. 1591 SPARRY tr. Cattan's Geomancie B2b, By the
influence of the Sunne she [the Eagle] hath a marueilous property, which is, to be Lady of all other birdes. 1601 R. JOHNSON Kingd. &
Commw. (1603) 107 Rome, once the Lady of the world. a1610 HEALEY Epictetus (1636) 79 Beware that thou hurt not thy minde, the
Lady of thy workes, and thine actions governesse.

c. A woman who is the object of chivalrous devotion; a mistress, ‘lady-love’.

c1374 CHAUCER Troylus I. 811 Many a man hath love ful dere y-bought, Twenty winter that his lady wiste, That never yet his lady
mouth he kiste. 1509 HAWES Past. Pleas. XVIII. (Percy Soc.) 83 You are my lady, you are my masteres, Whome I shall serve with all
my gentylnes. a1547 SURREY in Tottel's Misc. (Arb.) 20 A praise of his loue: wherein he reproueth them that compare their Ladies with
his. 1588 SHAKES. L.L.L. V. ii. 436. 1633 T. JAMES Voy. 71 This euening being May euen; we..chose Ladies, and did ceremoniously
weare their names in our Caps. 1867 TENNYSON Window 120 Never a line from my lady yet! Is it ay or no? a1881 ROSSETTI House of
Life viii, My lady only loves the heart of Love.

3. spec. a. The Virgin Mary. (Usually Our Lady = L. Domina Nostra, and equivalents in all mod. European
langs.) Our Lady's bands: pregnancy.

a900 CYNEWULF Crist 284 Cristes enas cwea ond singa æt u sie hlæfdie halum meahtum wuldorweorudes. c1175 Lamb.
Hom. 17 He wes iboren of ure lefdi Zeinte Marie. c1200 Trin. Coll. Hom. 161 Maidene maide and heuene quen and englene lafdi.
c1200 ORMIN 2127 Ure deore laffdi wass urrh Drihhten nemmnedd Mare. c1325 Metr. Hom. 160 Ilke day deuotely Herd scho
messe of our Lefdye. c1410 LOVE Bonavent. Mirr. ii. 28 (Gibbs MS.) an come ei forermore to e house of oure lady cosyn
Elizabeth. 1513 MORE in Grafton Chron. (1568) II. 761 By Gods blessed Ladie (that was euer his othe). 1553 BECON Reliques of Rome
(1563) 233* Ye shall also praye..for the women that bene in our Ladyes bandes and with childe. a1555 Articles imputed to Latimer in
Foxe A. & M. (1563) 1309/2 No doubt our lady was, through the goodnes of God, a good & a gratious creature. 1592 SHAKES. Rom.
& Jul. II. v. 63 O Gods Lady deare, Are yow so hot? marrie come vp I trow. 1797 MRS. RADCLIFFE Italian xi, On the morning of our
high festival, our Lady's day, it is usual for such as devote themselves to heaven to receive the veil. 1832 TENNYSON Mariana iii, Low on
her knees herself she cast, Before Our Lady murmur'd she.

b. Our, the Lady in March, or Lent: the Annunciation, Mar. 25. Our Lady in Harvest: the Assumption, Aug.
15. Our Lady in December: the Conception, Dec. 8. (See LADY-DAY.)

c1297 R. GLOUC. (Rolls) 9080 Vr leuedy [v. rr. leuedi dai, lefdi day] in decembre. c1483 CAXTON Dialogues (E.E.T.S.) 28/21 Our
ladye in marche. Ibid. 28/23 Our lady in heruest. 1608 Acc. Bk. W. Wray in Antiquary XXXII. 213 A great frost from Martinmas till
almost ye Lady in lent.

c. An image of the Virgin Mary. Obs.

1563 Homilies II. Agst. Idolatry III. (1859) 225 Christophers, Ladies, and Mary Magdalenes, and other Saints. 1606 Arraignm. late
Traitors D1b, Their [Papists'] kissing of babies, their kneeling to wodden Ladies.

4. a. A woman of superior position in society, or to whom such a position is conventionally or by courtesy
attributed. Originally, the word connoted a degree equal to that expressed by lord; but it was (like its synonyms in
all European langs.) early widened in application, while the corresponding masc. term retained its restricted
comprehension. In mod. use lady is the recognized fem. analogue of gentleman, and is applied to all women above
a loosely-defined and variable, but usually not very elevated standard of social position. Often used (esp. in ‘this
lady’) as a more courteous synonym for ‘woman’, without reference to the status of the person spoken of. See
also FINE LADY, YOUNG LADY.
As the traditional association of lady with lord still survives, the former is a title of ostensibly higher dignity than gentleman. Hence, and
not directly as the result of the sentiment of gallantry, the customary order of words in ‘ladies and gentlemen’.

c1205 LAY. 24715 Alle a lafdies leoneden eond walles to bihalden a duoen. c1230 Hali Meid. 9 Aske es cwenes, es riche
cuntasses, es modie lafdis. 1297 R. GLOUC. (Rolls) 3280 Mony was e vayre leuedi at icome was er to. 1340 Ayenb. 215 e greate
lhordes and e greate lheuedyes. c1350 Will. Palerne 2968 Whan at loveli ladi hade listened his wordes..for ioye sche wept. 1377
LANGL. P. Pl. B. XVIII. 335 Ylyke a lusarde with a lady visage. c1386 CHAUCER Knt.'s T. 898 A companye of ladies..clad in clothes
blake. 1486 Bk. St. Albans Fvj, A Beuy of Ladies. 1526 Pilgr. Perf. (W. de W. 1531) 268 Labouryng & seruyng for these two ladyes,
Lya & Rachel. c1560 A. SCOTT Poems (S.T.S.) vi. 27 A lord to lufe a silly lass, A leddy als, for luf, to tak Ane propir page. 1588
SHAKES. L.L.L. II. i. 192 What Lady is that same? 1589 PUTTENHAM Eng. Poesie III. xxiv. (Arb.) 296 For Ladies and women to
weepe..it is nothing vncomely. 1611 BEAUM. & FL. Knt. Burn. Pestle III. iv, To punish all the sad enormities Thou hast committed against
ladies gent. 1664 EVELYN Kal. Hort. in Sylva, etc. (1729%2ÿÿ190 Keep your Wall and Palisade-Trees..sharp'd like a Lady's Fan. 1674
DRYDEN Epil. Misc. (1685) 289 A Country«Lip may have the Velvet touch, Tho' She's no Lady, you may think her such. 1702 ADDISON
Dial. Medals i. Wks. 1721 I. 438 We find too on Medals the representations of Ladies that have given occasion to whole volumes on the
account only of a face. 1768-74 TUCKER Lt. Nat. (1834) I. 246 This is giving the ladies' reason, ‘It is so because it is’. 1791 COWPER
Retired Cat 38 Linen..such as merchants introduce From India, for the ladies' use. 1807-8 W. IRVING Salmag. xviii. (1860) 414 It
appears to be an established maxim..that a lady loses her dignity when she condescends to be useful. 1886 MISS MULOCK K. Arthur i.
11 Poor lady!.. But if she were a real lady she would never be an opera-singer. 1888 Harper's Mag. Nov. 960/1 She was born, in our
familiar phrase, a lady, and..throughout a long life, she was surrounded with perfect ease of circumstance.

b. vocatively. (a) In the singular (not now in standard use). (b) In the pl., the ordinary term of oral address
to a number of women, without reference to their rank; corresponding to ‘Madam’ in the singular.
The uneducated, esp. in London, still often use ‘Lady’ in the sing. as a term of address for ‘Madam’ or ‘Ma'am’.

c1384 CHAUCER H. Fame III. 519 Lady, graunte us now good fame. c1400 Sowdone Bab. 1889 Noe, certes, lady, it is not I. 1599
SHAKES. Much Ado II. i. 285 Pedr. Come Lady, come, you haue lost the heart of Signior Benedicke. 1634 MILTON Comus 277 What
chance, good Lady, hath bereft you thus? Ibid. 319, I can conduct you, Lady, to a low But loyal cottage. 1808 [see GENTLEMAN 4b].
1819 SHELLEY Cenci V. ii. 172 Know you this paper, Lady? 1914 G. B. SHAW Pygmalion (1916) I. 107 The Flower Girl. Thank you
kindly, lady. 1924 I. GERSHWIN (song title) Lady, be good. 1953 Manch. Guardian Weekly 10 Sept. 7 Why, lady, take route 128.
1972 P. RUELL Red Christmas xiv. 148 ‘Lady,’ he said, ‘you talk sense. Just remember, it's guns that count.’ 1974 M. BABSON
Stalking Lamb xxiii. 176, I know it can, lady. It won't be the first time.

c. lady errant: a humorous feminine analogue of ‘knight errant’.

a1643 CARTWRIGHT (title) The Lady Errant. 1655 FULLER Ch. Hist. VI. vii. 364 Conscientious Catholicks conceived these Lady
Errants so much to deviate from feminine..modesty..that they zealously decried their practice.

d. Applied to fairies.

1628 MILTON Vac. Exerc. 60 At thy birth The Faiery Ladies daunc't upon the hearth. a1650 K. Arthur's Death 235 in Furnivall Percy
Folio I. 506 He see a barge from the land goe, & hearde Ladyes houle & cry.

e. Phraseological expressions. lady of the lake, (a) the designation of a personage in the Arthurian legends,
Nimue or Vivien; (b) a nymph; (c) a kept mistress. lady of pleasure, a courtesan, whore. lady of easy
virtue, a woman whose chastity is easily assailable. lady of the frying-pan, a jocular term for a cook. lady of
Babylon, of Rome, abusive terms for the Roman Catholic Church, with reference to the ‘scarlet woman’ of the
Apocalypse. lady of honour, lady of presence, a lady who holds the position of attendant to a queen or princess
(cf. maid of honour); similarly lady of the bedchamber, lady-in-waiting. Lady Bountiful (see BOUNTIFUL a. 1).
a lady in the case, indicating that the key to the problem is a lady (cf. CHERCHEZ LA FEMME). the Old Lady (in
or) of Threadneedle Street, the Bank of England. the lady of the house, the mistress of a household; a housewife.

1470-85 MALORY Arthur I. xxv. 73 What damoysel is that? said Arthur. That is the lady of the lake, said Merlyn. 1530 PALSGR. 237/1
Lady of presence, damoiselle dhonneur. 1536 HEN. VIII Let. 10 Jan. in Halliwell Lett. Eng. Kings (1846) I. 352 At the interment [of
Katharine of Arragon] it is requisite to have the presence of a good many ladies of honour. 1579 SPENSER Sheph. Cal. Apr. 120 They
bene all Ladyes of the lake behight [E. K. Gloss, Ladyes of the lake be Nymphes]. 1625 MASSINGER New Way II. i, Thou shalt
dine..With me, and with a lady. Marrall. Lady? What lady? With the Lady of the Lake, or Queen of Fairies? 1631 High Commission
Cases (Camden) 187 The Lady Willoughby..now one of the Ladyes of Honour attendant upon the Queene. 1637 SHIRLEY (title) The
Lady of Pleasure. c1645 HOWELL Lett. (1650) I. 447 He hath no such cloisters or houses for ladies of pleasure. 1678 BUTLER Hud. III.
i. 869 The difference Marriage makes 'Twixt Wives, and Ladies of the Lakes. 1708 MOTTEUX Rabelais (1737) V. 217 Kept-Wenches,
Kind-hearted-Things, Ladies of Pleasure, by what..Names soever dignified. 1727 J. GAY Fables I. l. 172 And when a lady's in the case,
You know, all other things give place. 1785 GROSE Dict. Vulg. Tongue, Lady of easy virtue, a woman of the town, a prostitute. c1793
JANE AUSTEN Volume Second in Minor Works (1954) 136 We had scarcely paid our Compliments to the Lady of the House. 1797 J.
GILLRAY Caricature 22 May, Political Ravishment, or The Old Lady of Threadneedle-Street in danger! 1809 MALKIN Gil Blas III. x.
4 The lady of the frying-pan..was assisted in her cookery by the coachman. 1809 [see EASY a. 12]. 1816 JANE AUSTEN Emma III. xiv.
254 It was with difficulty thct she could summon enough of her usual self to be the attentive lady of the house, or even the attentive
daughter. 1820 Black Dwarf IV. 36 Van went to wheedlethe street of Threadneedle, To get him, poor dog, a loan;..He ask'd the old
lady to cash him a bill. 1821 BYRON Juan V. xix. 243 ‘Ay,’ quoth his friend, ‘I thought it would appear That there had been a lady in the
case.’ 1850 Househ. Words 6 July 337 (heading) The Old Lady of Threadneedle Street. 1858 TROLLOPE Barchester T. xx. 150 The
ordeal through which he had gone, in resisting the blandishments of the lady of Rome. 1860 Castle Richmond I. v. 83 The pope,
with his lady of Babylon, his college of cardinals [etc.]. 1861 MRS. BEETON Bk. Househ. Managem. 9 The more usual plan is for the lady
of the house to have the joint brought to her table, and afterwards carried to the nursery. 1862 MRS. H. WOOD Mrs. Hallib. II. xii. 205
Making the avowal as freely as though he had proclaimed that his mother was lady-in-waiting to the Queen. 1863 A. TROLLOPE Rachel
Ray I. xiii. 260 Luke, is there no young lady in the case? 1884 Peel City Guardian No. 26. 2/1 The rest of the ‘Old Lady in
Threadneedle-street’ remained unbroken. 1909 W. S. GILBERT Fallen Fairies II. 37 In all the woes that curse our race There is a lady in
the case. 1958 R. GENDERS Pansies, Violas & Violets x. 100 Those who have retired will be able to give the plants their full attention,
whilst those who have to go out to work each day may have to entrust the care of the plants to the lady of the house. 1971 Guardian 19
Aug. 9/3 Door-to-door sales people were asked why the opening question is always, ‘Is the lady of the house home?’ 1974 G. VAIZEY
Tangled Web ii. 26 He..is highly respected by the Old Lady of Threadneedle Street.

f. pl. Designation of a public convenience for females. Freq. ladies', and with capital initial.

1918 ‘K. MANSFIELD’ Jrnl. (1954) 140 Also, when she goes to the ‘Ladies’, for some obscure reason she wears a little shawl. 1936
R. CAMPBELL Mithraic Emblems 120 No ‘Ladies’ here or ‘Gentlemens’ are seen For most of you to hesitate between. 1938 G.
GREENE Brighton Rock III. i. 98 The white steps down to the ladies'. 1939 C. MORLEY Kitty Foyle 36 How to get undressed in a
Pullman berth, how to find the Ladies. 1944 T. RATTIGAN While Sun Shines I. 190, I lost the plans of the Station Defence... We found
them again all right. I'd only left them in the Ladies. 1965 G. MELLY Owning-Up vi. 64 ‘They're no good,’ he'd tell us as two of them
swayed past on their way to the ladies. 1974 D. MEIRING President Plan vi. 42 Comunicado Number Two..was found, as anonymously
advised, in the Ladies' of a San Agustín restaurant.

5. A woman whose manners, habÿÿs, and sentiments have the refinement characteristic of the higher ranks of
society.

1861 GEO. ELIOT Silas M. I. xi. 185 She had the essential attributes of a ladyhigh veracity, delicate honour in her dealings, deference
to others, and refined personal habits. 1880 C. E. NORTON Ch.-building Mid. Ages ii. 40 Her [Venice's] gentlemen were the first in
Europe, and the first modern ladies were Venetian.

6. As an honorific title. a. A prefix forming part of the customary designation of a woman of rank. Also in my
lady, an appellation used (chiefly by inferiors) in speaking to or of those who are designated by this prefix.
In the 15-16th c., The (or My) Lady was prefixed to the Christian name of a female member of the royal family, as ‘Princess’ is now.
With regard to the use of the prefix in the titles of the nobility of the British Isles, usage has varied greatly at different times, but the
following rules are now established: (1) In speaking of a marchioness, countess, viscountess, or baroness (whether she be such in her own
right, by marriage, or by courtesy), the prefix Lady is a less formal substitute for the specific designation of rank, which is not used in
conversational address: thus ‘the Marchioness (of) A.’ is spoken to, and informally spoken of, as ‘Lady A.’ (2) The daughters of dukes,
marquises, and earls have Lady (more formally, e.g. on a superscription, The Lady) prefixed to their Christian names. (3) The wife of the
holder of a courtesy title in which Lord is prefixed to a Christian name is known as ‘(The) Lady John B.’ (4) The wife of a baronet or
other knight (‘Sir John C.’) is commonly spoken of as ‘Lady C.’, the strictly correct appellation ‘Dame Mary C.’ being confined to legal
documents, sepulchral monuments, and the like.

c1489 CAXTON Blanchardyn Ded. 1 Unto the right noble puyssant & excellent pryncesse, my redoubted lady, my lady Margarete,
duchesse of Somercete. 1509 in Fisher's Wks. (1876) 288 The moost excellent pryncesse my lady the kynges graundame. a1548 HALL
Chron., Hen. VIII 238b, The Ladye Marques Dorset. 1555 N. GRIMALDE in Tottel's Misc. (Arb.) 113 An Epitaph of the ladye
Margaret Lee. 1594 SHAKES. Rich. III, I. ii. Stage direct., Enter the Coarse of Henrie the sixt..Lady Anne being the Mournÿÿ. 1599
Broughton's Lett. vii. 21 Who selected him..to bee the Lady Margarets Reader. a1674 CLARENDON Hist. Reb. XI. §235 The general's
wife, the lÿÿy Fayrefax. 1694 CONGREVE Double Dealer Dram. Pers., Lord Touchwood,..Sir Paul Plyant..Knight..Lady
Touchwood..Lady Plyant. a1715 BURNET Own Time I. (1724) I. 19 Lady Margaret Dowglas was the child so provided for. Ibid. III.
353 The Lady Bellasis, the widow of the Lord Bellasis's son. 1719 PRIOR (title) Verses spoken to Lady Henrietta Cavendish-Holles
Harley, Countess of Oxford. 1766 Gentl. Mag. XXXVI. 103/1 Lady North,of a son. Ibid., Lady Anne Conway, eldest daughter to tÿÿ
Earl of Hertford. 1833 TENNYSON (title) Lady Clara Vere de Vere. 1864 Aylmer's F. 190 My lady's Indian kinsman. 1870
DISRAELI Lothair II. xiv. 148 Lothair danced with Lady Flora Falkirk, and her sister, Lady Grizell, was in the same quadrille.

b. Prefixed to the names of goddesses, allegorical personages, personifications, etc. Now arch. exc. in Lady
Luck = FORTUNE n. 1.

c1205 LAY. 1198 Leafdi Diana: leoue Diana hee Diana, help me to neode. c1425 LYDG. Assembly of Gods 239 My lady Diane, the
goddesse. 1508 DUNBAR Gold. Targe 74 Thare saw I..The fresch Aurora, and lady Flora schene. Ibid. 210 A wofull prisonnere To lady
Beautee. 1551 ROBINSON tr. More's Utop. II. (Arb.) 160 If that same worthye princesse lady money did not alone stop up the waye
betwene vs and our lyuing. 1566 DRANT Horace's Sat. I. iii. Bvj, Thus graunte you must, that feare of wronge set ladye lawe in forte.
1597 J. PAYNE Royal Exch. 20 [Those] that make so small accowmpt of religion and good lyfe, otherwyse then of there belly God and
ladie pleasure. a1625 BOYS Wks. (1629) 487 Ladie Venus dwels at the signe of the Iuie bush. 1932 M. SHORT (title) Lady Luck in
1941. 1936 C. SANDBURG People, Yes 165 Yes, get Lady Luck with you and you're made. 1961 T. HENROT Belgium 119 A thousand
ways of flirting with Lady Luck.

c. Prefixed to titles of honour or designations of dignified office, as an added mark of respect. Obs. or arch.
Lady Mayoress: see MAYORESS.

c1386 CHAUCER Prioress' Prol. 13 My lady Prioresse. 1530 PALSGR. 237/1 Lady maystres, dame dhonnevr; govuernante. 1613
SHAKES. Hen. VIII, V. iii. 169 You shall haue two noble Partners with you: the old Duchesse of Norfolke, and Lady Marquess Dorset.
1638 FORD Fancies IV. ii, Are you not enthroned The lady-regent? 1710 SHAFTESBURY Adv. Author III. ii. 167 The Method of
expostulating with his Lady-Governess. 1721 STRYPE Eccl. Mem. II. i. 3 The Lady Mary, the Kings daughter, appointed for the lady
godmother. 1771 SMOLLETT Humph. Cl. 8 Aug., The lady-directress of the ball..had her conveyed to another room. 1820 SCOTT Abbot
xii, ‘They call me Lady Abbess, or Mother at the least, who address me’, said Dame Bridget.

d. Prefixed to designations of relationship, by way of respectful address or reference, as lady wife, etc. (Cf. F.
Madame votre mère, etc.) arch. or genteel.

15.. Roberte the Deuyll 522 in Hazlitt E.P.P. I. 239 And when he sawe hys mother goynge, He sayde, alas, Lady mother, speake with
me. 1528 MORE Dial. III. xii. Wks. 227/2 But were I Pope. By my soule quod he, I would ye wer, & my lady your wife Popesse too.
1602 2nd Pt. Return fr. Parnass. II. vi. 983«A Turkey Pye, or a piece of Venison, which my Lady Grand-mother sent oe. 1628 FORD
Lover's Mel. IV. ii, Your business with my lady-daughter toss-pot? 1655 DRYDEN (title) Lines in a Letter to his Lady Cousin Honor
Driden. 1749 FIELDING Tom Jones XV. v, Answer for yourself, lady cousin. 1805 SCOTT Last Minstr. VI. xxiii, But that my ladye-mother
there Sits lonely in her castle-hall. 1820 W. TOOKE tr. Lucian I. 730 As to your lady-bride, I envy not her beauty. 1840 DICKENS Lett.
(1969) II. 7, I wish I could send you some autographs..but I find..that my lady wife has been bestowing them upon her friends. 1855
TENNYSON Maud I. iv. 15, I bow'd to his lady-sister as she rode by. 1895 C. M. YONGE Long Vacation xxviii. 292 Mr. White, in his joy
at possessing his graceful lady wife, had spared no expense. 1969 Listener 27 Mar. 417/3 We don't think you've laid enough emphasis on
the colonel's foresight, courage, and heroic lady wife. 1971 ‘A. GILBERT’ Tenant for Tomb viii. 142, I don't know how far your lady
wife's in your confidence.

e. Lady Macbeth, with allusion to the character in Shakespeare's play Macbeth: a remorseless or melodramatic
woman, usu. leading or assisting a weak man.

1876 TROLLOPE Prime Minister I. xi. 169, I feel myself to be a Lady Macbeth, prepared for the murder of any Duncan or any Daubeny
who may stand in my lord's way. 1919 KIPLING Years Between 92 A boy drowning kittens Winced at the business; whereupon his sister
(Lady Macbeth aged seven) thrust 'em under. 1969 M. PUGH Last Place Left iv. 26 ‘I know you're up to something,’ Nell repeated.
‘You're taking all this far too calmly.’ ‘All right, Lady Macbeth.’ 1974 J. MANN Sticking Place x. 153 Hasn't there been enough killing? I
am no Lady Macbeth.

I. A woman who rules, or has control.

1. a. A woman who employs others in her service; a woman who has the care of or authority over servants or
attendants.

1426 LYDG. De Guil. Pilgr. 3786 For she that ys a maysteresse Muste haue a seruant hyr to-beye. 1451 Paston Lett. I. 222, I send
yow the cerciorari for my maistresse your modir. c1532 G. DU WES Introd. Fr. in Palsgr. 1036 My lady Mary of Englande, my lady and
mastresse. 1535 COVERDALE Ps. cxxii. 2 As the eyes of a mayden [loke] vnto the handes of hir mastresse. 1591 SHAKES. Two Gent. II.
iv. 106 Too low a Mistres for so high a seruant. c1614 SIR W. MURE Dido & Æneas III. 391 Her Dams attending see their mistris fall On
piercing sword. 1715 POPE Iliad III. 526 The maids officious round their mistress wait. 1866 READE G. Gaunt II. iv. 76 That sort
of..cold pity women are apt to show to women, and especially when one of them is Mistress and the other is Servant. 1866 W. COLLINS
Armadale II. 322 Whan the maid-servant had opened the door... ‘Is your mistress at home?’ he asked. ‘Yes, sir.’ 1903 J. M. SLOAN
Carlyle Country xxi. 192 Jane Welsh was among the best of mistresses to her servants.

Proverbial phrases. 1573 TUSSER Husb. (1878) 107 Such maister such man, and such mistris such maid. 1611 BIBLE Isa. xxiv. 2.
1612 PEACHAM Gentl. Exerc. To Rdr., He should neuer leaue the Mistresse to court the maid.

b. transf. and fig.

1545 R. ASCHAM Toxoph. I. (Arb.) 44, I euer thought shooting shoulde be a wayter vpon lerning not a mastres ouer learning. 1599
SHAKES. Hen. V, I. i. 52 The Art and Practique part of Life, Must be the Mistresse to this Theorique. 1658 DRYDEN Death Cromwell
viii, Fortune, that easy mistress of the young, But to her ancient servants coy and hard. 1846 Pref. Ess. in Charnock's Wks. p. xii,
Charnock's imagination was..the handmaid not the mistress of his reason.

2. a. The female head of a household or family, and, by extension, of an establishment of any kind.

?c1400 Rule St. Benet (Prose) 10 Ilkain sal take discipline at oir, als hir mastiresse o scho ware. 1413 Pilgr. Sowle (Caxton) IV.
xxxviii. (1859) 64 She bare hyr seluen boldely, right as she were maystresse, and hadde alle the gouernement of the kyng, and his
houshold. 1513 BRADSHAW St. Werburge I. 2317 Of whiche sayd places [sc. monasteries] she had the gouernaunce, As worthy
maystres. 1611 BIBLE 1 Kings xvii. 17 The sonne of the woman, the mistresse of the house, fell sicke. 1641 J. JACKSON True Evang. T.
III. 225 The Mistris is a good Huswife, but of shrewish condition. 1711 STEELE Spect. No. 202 12 That the Masters and Mistresses of
such Houses live in continual Suspicion of their ingenuous and true Servants. 1773 MRS. CHAPONE Improv. Mind (1774) II. 72 The
mistress of a family must be ever watchful. 1814 SCOTT Wav. liii, The future mistress of my family, and the mother of my children. 1861 F.
NIGHTINGALE Nursing 24 The mistress of any building, large or small, does not think it necessary to visit every hole and corner of it every
day. 1864 TENNYSON En. Ard. 26 Enoch was host one day, Philip the next, While Annie still was mistress.

b. Sc. and dial. (with the): The wife of a principal tenant, a minister, etc. (the application varying in different
localities).

1683 Reg. Par. Forres 10 Feb. (MS.), John the son of Thomas Urquhart of Burgorge and Flowrence Dunbar the Mistress [born].
1786 BOSWELL Jrnl. 6 Sept. note, The tacksmen, or principal tenants, are named by their farms, as Kingsburgh, Corrichatachin; and their
wives are called the mistress of Kingsburgh, the mistress of Corrichatachin. 1815 SCOTT Guy M. xxvi, Several of the neighbouring
mistresses (a phrase of a signification how different from what it bears in more fashionable life!) had assembled at Charlieshope to witness
the event of this memorable evening. 1822 GALT Steam-Boat xii. 296 Although Mr. Keckle had been buried but the week before, the
mistress, as a' minister's wives of the right gospel and evangelical kind should be, was in a wholesome state of composity.

3. A woman who has charge of a child or young person; a governess. Obs.

c1320 Sir Tristr. 102 To hir maistresse sche gan say at hye was boun to go To e knit er he lay. c1386 CHAUCER Doctor's T. 106
This mayde,..So kepte hir-self, hir neded no maistresse. c1386 Sqr.'s T. 369 Thise olde wommen that been gladly wyse, As is hir
maistresse,..seyde, ‘madame’ [etc.]. c1400 Ywaine & Gaw. 936 Sho was al hir maystres, Her keper, and hir cownsayler.

4. a. A woman who has the power to control or dispose of something. to be mistress: to have the upper hand.
Now rare.

c1380 WYCLIF Serm. Sel. Wks. I. 380 Oure Ladi..is special maistiresse to distroie es heretikes. 1577 F. de L'isle's Legendarie Kiij,
The Cardinal knew that so long as the Queene mother was Mistresse, the accomptes should neuer be taken. a1586 SIDNEY Arcadia III.
(1590) 254 While you say I am mistresse of your life, I am not mistresse of mine owne. 1592 QUEEN ELIZABETH in Archæologia XIX.
11 That any lewd..subject of myne, should make his Soveraen be supposed of less gouvernement than mistres of her word. 1687 A.
LOVELL tr. Thevenot's Trav. I. lxx. 111 The World is turned topsie-turvie in this Island; for the Women are the Mistresses there. 1746
HERVEY Medit. (1818) 251 The little creature..shewed herself mistress of every grace which constitutes or embellishes harmony. 1794
MRS. RADCLIFFE Myst. Udolpho xxxix, You are your own mistress. 1807 CRABBE Par. Reg. II. 31 And now at sixty, that pert dame to
see, Of all thy savings mistress, and of thee.

b. transf. of things more or less personified.

c1430 LYDG. Min. Poems (Percy Soc.) 60 Entendement double is a maystresse, Triew people to sette at distaunce. 1509 BARCLAY
Shyp of Folys (1570) 185 This pride is lady and maistres Ouer womankinde. 1587 GOLDING De Mornay (1592) Pref. 4 Christ wrought
by a powre, that is mistresse of Nature. 1603 FLORIO Montaigne II. xi, I know his reason..so absolute mistress over him, that she can
never give him away in any vicious desire. 1614 JACKSON Creed III. 239 An infallible authoritie which may sit as Iudge and mistresse of all
controuersies of faith. 1711-12 ATTERBURY Serm. (1734) II. vii. 200 The Mind of Man is..so little Mistress of strict Attention, so unable
to fix itself steddily even on God. 1727 ARBUTHNOT Coins, etc. 243 What a miserable Spectacle was this for a Nation that had been
Mistress at Sea so long? 1742 YOUNG Nt. Th. VIII. 533 Pleasure's the mistress of ethereal pow'rs. 1785 COWPER Task IV. 703 Ere yet
her ear was mistress of their powers. 1842 TENNYSON Gardener's Dau. 57 Such a lord is Love, And Beauty such a mistress of the
world. 1884 Sat. Rev. 7 June 731/1 England is still mistress of the situation on the Nile.

5. a. The female governor of a territory, state, or people. Obs.

c1366 CHAUCER A.B.C. 109 From his ancille he made e maistresse Of heuene & eere. 1598 SYLVESTER Du Bartas II. ii. II. 673
That prudent Pallas, Albion's Misteris, That Great Eliza. 1686 WALLER Poems 244 Ages to come..Will think you Mistriss of the Indies
were. 1785 COWPER Task v. 129 Imperial mistress of the fur-clad Russ!

b. Said of a country or state, etc. that has supremacy or suzerainty over others.
(Ancient Rome is freq. called the ‘mistress of the world’.)

1375 BARBOUR Bruce I. 550 Arthur..Maid Bretane maistres & lady Off twelf kinrykis that he wan. 1456 SIR G. HAYE Law Arms
(S.T.S.) 21 The kirk of Rome suld be callit lady and maistress of all cristyn kirkis. 1570-6 LAMBARDE Peramb. Kent (1826) 17 The
Westsaxon kingdome, which in the ende became ladie and maistres of all the rest of the kingdomes. 1611 B. JONSON Catiline I. i.
Chorus, Rome now is mistress of the whole World, sea and land, to either pole. 1785 COWPER Task IV. 169 A Roman meal, Such as the
mistress of the world once found Delicious. 1835 THIRLWALL Greece I. 435 Eretria..was mistress of several islands. 1859 JEPHSON
Brittany xvi. 255 England, mistress of Normandy and Anjou. 1893 EARL DUNMORE Pamirs II. 315 Russia, being then determined to
make herself mistress of Central Asia.

c. The chief, the first. Obs.

1491 CAXTON Vitas Patr. (W. de W. 1495) I. xxxvi. 32b/2, The fayr vertue of charytee, whyche is the maystresse of all vertues. 1613
SHAKES. Hen. VIII, III. i. 152 The Lilly That once was Mistris of the Field.

6. A woman, a goddess, or something personified as a woman (e.g. a virtue, a passion), having dominion over
a person or regarded as a protecting or guiding influence. Obs.

c1369 CHAUCER Bk. Duchesse 797 For that tyme yowthe my maistresse Gouerned me in ydelnesse. c1375 Sc. Leg. Saints xviii.
(Egipciane) 745 Sa at u myn mastres be, & ledar in wa of sawete. 1390 GOWER Conf. III. 353 For Nature is under the Mone
Maistresse of every lives kinde. c1420 LYDG. Assembly of Gods 243 Wyll ye agre that Phebe your mastresse May haue the guydyng of
your varyaunce? 1470-85 MALORY Arth. X. lxxi. 538 Wel I wote that loue is a grete maystresse. 1594 T. B. La Primaud. Fr. Acad. II.
61 They..do as if they meant to despite God and Nature, whome they will not followe as mistresse. 1605 SHAKES. Lear II. i. 42
Mumbling of wicked charmes, coniuring the Moone To stand auspicious Mistris. 1633 MILTON Arcades 36 The great Mistres of yon
princely shrine. 1677 A. YARRANTON Eng. Improv. 6 To beat the Dutch with fighting, so as to force them from their beloved Mistriss
and delight, (which is Trade and Riches thereby).

7. a. A woman, or something personified as a woman, regarded as the authoress, creatress, or patroness of
an art, religion, a state of life, etc.

a1400-50 Alexander 4530 Minerua was a maistres of many kingis werkis. 1490 CAXTON Eneydos xiii. 46 Juno, the goddesse of
wedlocke whiche is lady mastresse, and wardeyne, of the connexes or bondes aminicules. a1500-20 DUNBAR Poems lxxxvii. 13 Dochtir
to Pallas.., Mastres of nurtur and of nobilnes. 1577 J. NORTHBROOKE Dicing (1843) 59 Idlenesse (sayeth Chrysostome) is the mystres
and beginning of all vice and wickednesse. 1604 E. G[RIMSTONE] D'Acosta's Hist. Indies III. iii. 127 Vntill that Experience (the mistris of
these secrets) had taught them. 1708 S. CENTLIVRE Busy Body I. i, Want, the mistress of invention.

b. = PATRONESS 1. Obs.

[1460: see MISTRESS-SHIP 2.] 1710 SWIFT Jrnl. to Stella 10 Sept., I..saw my mistress, Ophy Butler's wife, who is grown a little
charmless. Ibid. 1 Oct., To desire him to engage Lady Hyde as my mistress to engage Lord Hyde in favour of Mr. Pratt.

8. A female possessor or owner. Chiefly to be mistress of: to be possessed of; to have in her possession or at
her disposal; also, to be perfectly acquainted with (a subject). ? Obs. (Cf. 4.)

1551 T. WILSON Logike Ep. Aiij, I haue first laboured to bring so noble a maistresse both of reason and judgement acquainted with so
noble a countrey. 1600 SHAKES. A.Y.L. I. ii. 4, I show more mirth then I am mistresse of. 1603 FLORIO Montaigne I. xl, [The soule] who
is the only and soveraigne mistris of our condition. 1665 BOYLE Occas. Refl. V. ix. (1848) 329 The Collection..is..such, as if the Mistress
of it were less handsome than she is, might give her as well Cause to be jealous of these fine things. 1703 ROWE Fair Penit. II. i, If I was
ever Mistress of such Happiness. 1756 WASHINGTON Lett. Writ. 1889 I. 256 You may expect..that, without a considerable
reinforcement, Frederick county will not be mistress of fifteen families. 1766 Gentl. Mag. Dec. 587 A strong bodied mare, mistress of 16
stone. 1782 COWPER Parrot IV. 13 ‘Sweet Poll!’ his doting mistress cries. 1811 JANE AUSTEN Sense & Sens. xl, Elinor, not hearing
much of what was said and more anxious to be alone than to be mistress of the subject.

9. A woman who has mastered any art, craft, or branch of study.

1484 CAXTON Fables of Auian v. (1889) 221, I am a maystresse in medecyn. 1535 COVERDALE Nah. iii. 4 The fayre and beutifull
harlot: which is a mastresse of wychcraft. 1590 SPENSER F.Q. I. vii. 1 Great maistresse of her art was that false Dame. 1611 SHAKES.
Wint. T. IV. iv. 593, I cannot say 'tis pitty She lacks Instructions, for she seemes a Mistresse To most that teach. 1712 ADDISON Spect.
No. 92 5, I would advise all young Wives to make themselves Mistresses of Wingate's Arithmetick. 1718 ROWE tr. Lucan VI. 912 Hail!
mighty Mistress of Hæmonian arts. 1802 A. SEWARD Lett. (1811) VI. 48 Who is such a mistress, where I am so shallow a student. 1807
CRABBE Par. Reg. I. 184 The Sybil of the Row..Mistress of worthless arts. [1888 BRYCE Amer. Commw. VI. cii. III. 445 note, Degree
titles.., Mistress of Polite Literature, Mistress of Music.]

10. a. A woman who has command over a man's heart; a woman who is loved and courted by a man; a
sweetheart, lady-love. (Now avoided in ordinary use exc. in unequivocal contexts.)

1509 HAWES Past. Pleas. xviii. (Percy Soc.) 83 You are my lady, you are my masteres, Whome I shall serve with all my gentylnes.
1591 SHAKES. Two Gent. IV. iv. 182, I giue thee this For thy sweet Mistris sake, because thou lou'st her. 1647 CLARENDON Hist. Reb.
I. §20 How Gallant..a thing it would be for his Highness..to fetch home his Mistres. 1697 DRYDEN Virg. Past. III. 103 To the dear
Mistress of my Love-sick Mind, Her Swain a pretty Present has design'd. 1750 JOHNSON Rambler No. 28 3 How few faults a man, in
the first raptures of love, can discover in the person or conduct of his mistress. 1822 LAMB Elia, Ser. I. Modern Gallantry, It was during
their short courtship,..that he had been one day treating his mistress with a profusion of civil speeches. 1868 [see MISAPPRECIATION].
1891 HARDY Tess xxxiii, A last jaunt in her company while they were yet mere lover and mistress.

b. Applied to animals.

1692 R. L'ESTRANGE Fables cxxiii, The Other Cock had a Good Riddance of his Rival..and had All his Mistresses to Himself again.
1720 GAY Rur. Sports 82 The dewlap'd bull..His well-arm'd front against his rival aims, And by the dint of war his mistress claims. 1840
Penny Cycl. XVIII. 477/1 In France they allow twenty mistresses to each cock.

11. A woman who illicitly occupies the place of wife.

1430-40 LYDG. Bochas I. viii. (1494) cj, [Scylla loq.] Called in my cuntre a fals traitouresse..Of newe defamed and namyd a maistresse.
1601 R. JOHNSON Kingd. & Commw. (1603) 320 Every man hath his Mistresse with instruments of musicke, and such like pleasures
[etc.]. a1631 DONNE Serm. lxiv. 642 Those women, whom the Kings were to take for their Wives, and not for Mistresses, (which is but a
later name for Concubines). 1694 EVELYN Diary 22 Apr., The quarrel arose from his taking away his owne sister from lodging in a house
where this Laws had a mistress. 1727 POPE & GAY What passed in London Swift's Wks. 1751 VI. 271 They took to Wife their several
kept Mistresses. 1819 BYRON Mazeppa iv, But soon his wrath being o'er, he took Another mistress, or new book. 1859 MACAULAY
Biog., Pitt (1860) 193 His Protestant mistresses gave less scandal than his Popish wife. 1865 TROLLOPE Belton Est. xviii. 212 For three
years I was a man's mistress, and not his wife.

II. 12. A female teacher, instructress; now only, one who is engaged in a school, or one who teaches some
special subject, as music, drawing, etc. Cf. 3, and MASTER n. 2.

c1374 CHAUCER Compl. Mars 33 She hath take him in subieccioun, And as a maistresse taught him his lessoun. c1374 Troylus II.
98 ‘Is it of love? O, som good ye me lere!’ ‘Uncle’, quod she, ‘your maistresse is not here!’ 1534 LD. BERNERS Gold. Bk. M. Aurel.
(1546) Fv, He prouyded women and maystresses for to teache theim. 1663 J. HEATH Flagellum (ed. 2) 4 From this A. B. C. Discipline
and the Slighted Governance of a Mistris, his Father removed him to the Tuition of Dr. Beard. 1697 in Col. Rec. Pennsylv. I. 532 Such
and so many masters, ushers, mistrisses. a1745 POPE Mem. P.P. Swift's Wks. 1751 V. 229 Even when I was at School, my Mistress did
ever extol me above the rest of the Youth. 1826 MRS. DODS Cook & Housewife's Man. 88 The Masters and Mistresses of Boarding
Schools. Mod. She is a mistress at the High School.

III. Used as a title or prefix.

13. a. Used vocatively as a term of respect or politeness; = MADAM%2W MA'AM. Obs. exc. arch. in general use.
Also W. Indies.

c1430 Syr Gener. (Roxb.) 269 ‘Maistres’, he seid, ‘god you spede!’ ?3468 Paston Lett. II. 313 And ye know welle, maistras, better
ys afrende unknow then knowen. 1513 BRADSHAW St. Werburge I. 133 Blessed vyrgyn Werburge my holy patronesse%ÿÿ Helpe me to
endyte I praye the, swete maystresse. 1534 MORE Comf. agst. Trib. II. Wks. 1170/2 Forsoth maisters quod he, youre husband loueth
well wo talke. 1588 SHAKES. L.L.L. V. ii. 847 Studies my Ladie? Mistresse, looke on me. 1667 MILTON P.L. IX. 532 Wonder not,
sovran Mistress, if perhaps Thou canst, who art sole Wonder, much less arm Thy looks..with disdain. 1824 HOGG Conf. Sinner 91 ‘Pray,
mistress, what is your name?’ ‘My name is Arabella Calvert’, said the other: ‘Miss, mistress, or widow, as you chuse, for I have been all
the three’. 1905 R. GARNETT Will. Shaks. 76 Mistress, if pardon for thy spouse entreating, Thine errand know for vain. 1957 F. A.
COLLYMORE Notes for Gloss. Barbadian Dial. (ed. 2) 57 The archaic nominative of address has survived in Barbados, and may be
heard any day on the lips of any servant or huckster addressing the mistress of the household, as, I want some more butter, mistress.
Mistress, you want any useful limes? 1966 Evening Standard 1 Feb. 8/4, I would be very glad to get out of this hard country [sc.
Jamaica], mistress.

b. In angry use (cf. MISS n.2 4b). Obs.

1883 M. R. LAHEE Acquitted though Guilty vi, [Father to daughter] But let me tell thee one thing, mistress: if ever I catch thee wi' him
I'll mischieve th' pair on yo'.

14. As a title of courtesy. Prefixed, a. to the surname (in early use also to the Christian name) of a married
woman. Now abbreviated MRS. (q.v.), formerly Mis, Mis, Mris. Now dial. and W. Indies.

1471 Paston Lett. III. 18 If it come to Mestresse Elysabeth Hyggens, at the Blak Swan. Ibid., Mestresse Elysabeth hathe a son, and
was delyveryd within ii. dayes afftr Seynt Bertelmew. 1552 LATIMER Serm. (1584) 288 Hee styred vp mistris Pilate, which tooke a nap
in the morning [etc.]. 1563-83 FOXE A. & M. II. 2073/2 One maistresse Anne Lacie widowe in Notinghamshiere. 1628 Obituary R.
Smith (Camden Soc.) 4 Mis Lucas, wife to Anthony Lucas..died. a1631 DONNE Lett. to Persons Hon. (1651) 75, I hear from England
of many censures of my book, of Mris Drury. 1631 T. POWELL Tom of All Trades 141 To abate the fury of Mistrisse Overcount mine
hostesse. 1782 COWPER Gilpin 65 Now Mistress Gilpin (careful soul!) Had two stone bottles found. 1825 HOOD Addr. to Mrs. Fry xiii,
I like your chocolate, good Mistress Fry! 1872 SCHELE DE VERE Americanisms 507 Mistress is in the South very frequently yet heard
pronounced fully, without the usual contraction into ‘Missess’. 1966 Guardian 14 Dec. 8/4 We go..to see Mistress Gladys Walker...
Here [sc. in Barbados], Mrs is often spoken out, in full.

b. to the Christian name or surname of an unmarried woman or girl; = MISS n.2 Obs. or dial.

?1461 Paston Lett. II. 78 To my right worchepfull Mastres Paston. c1535 ELIZ. SHELLEY in Miss Wood Lett. Roy. & Illustr. Ladies
(1846) II. 213 Your letter,..by the which I do perceive your pleasure is to know how mistress Bridget your daughter doth. 1598 SHAKES.
Merry W. I. i. 197 O heauen! this is Mistresse Anne Page. 1707 STEELE Corr., Dear Mistress Scurlock. 1710 SWIFT Jrnl. to Stella 25
Nov., So, here is mistress Stella again with her two eggs, &c. 1818 TODD, s.v. Miss, Mistress was then the style of grown up unmarried
ladies, though the mother was living; and, for a considerable part of the [18th] century, maintained its ground against the infantine term of
miss.

c. to a title, as mistress mayoress. Obs.

1541 Cal. Anc. Rec. Dublin (1889) I. 410 Such obprobrious words as one Walter Coke shold haw spokyn by Maisteras Mayras.

d. transf. and jocular.

1577-87 HOLINSHED Chron. III. 862/2 Some profit the husbandmen in some parts of the realme got by the moouing of this matter,
where inclosures were alreadie laid open, yer mistresse monie could preuent them. 1592 SHAKES. Rom. & Jul. III. v. 152 (Qo. 2),
Mistresse minion you? Thanke me no thankings, nor proud me no prouds. 1596 Tam. Shr. V. ii. 42, I, Mistris Bride, hath that
awakened you? 1610 Temp. IV. i. 235 Mistris line, is not this my Ierkin?

this makes sense as even today, if you dont know someones rank, you address them as ma'am and sir. a Doctor shouldnt get bent out of shape because someone who doesnt know addresses him as sir! (though they often do...

this leads nicely into Genevras question of what to do about SCA events wehre everyone will call you milday and milord...(sigh). In the SCA lexicon, taht is a polite term of address and it is ill considered (to my mind) to take offense where none is meant.

They address you so as a gesture of respect, little realizing that in our tongue it could be percieved as a slight...chalk it up to faulty translation .

if someone addresses me in a style which I do not prefer, I feel free to gently correct them..."good sir, you mistake me for a lady of property. I am a mere cook". If I am not interested in maintaining a conversation, I just smile nicely and remember they're TRYING to be polite...

So, it comes down to this, Genevra, how do you WANT to be addressed by those who are in the know? (the rest of the world you cant do much about...)

--AM

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"Genevra, how do you WANT to be addressed by those who are in the know?
Mistress / Mistress Ginevra is fine...... at 15th C / non- SCA events.

At Pennsic, I have to use your line, grit my teeth and smile politely since I am often addressed as "Lady Gwen". We'll have to let historical accuracy take a back seat since I don't want to offend anyone by assuming a "title" I didn't "earn". *sigh*

So this raises another historical question- Jeff is a "Knight" in that he is a mounted, armoured professional military man who commands a group of soldiers. Where is the historical line drawn between "Knight" with a capital "K" as a peer and "knight" with a small "k" as a profession? (And I am asking specifically for the HISTORICAL precedent here, not the conventions used by some of the groups.)

A few things I have found: Info from The Merchant of Prato by Iris Origo (Everyone on this list should read this book. No exceptions. It concerns the life of Francesco di Marco Datini, a rags-to-riches Tuscan merchant c. 1340-1410, who recorded his business dealings and the minutiae of his daily life in records and thousands of letters which have survived.)

Women once married are usually referred to as Monna, a contraction of Madonna (e.g. Monna Margherita, Monna Piera. This is, btw, how the Mona Lisa gets her name). As best as I can tell, this was used as a verbal direct address. It appears to be used by a broad class spectrum, since for this purpose womens' stations were a function of their marriage status more than their economic class. This may have been different among the nobility, a class with which Datini had few dealings. The author does cite a sermon by Bernardino of Siena where he scolds young women for their banter at mass: "One calls 'Giovanna!' - another cries 'Caterina!' and yet another 'Francesca'-Lo, with what a fine devotion you listen to the Mass!" Chances are he is refering to unmarried women, although this is not specified.

Among men the most-used honorific is Ser or Messer, and the relationship here is clearly similar to Sir and Mister. Messer seems to be used with less restriction, but towards equals or betters. Francesco Datini even refers to God as "Messer Dommenidio" (Mister Lord-God). Unclear if Messer was ever used verbally. Ser might have been, but the same situation obtains as with Sir: As a title used before a man's name, it implies a specific status. In Tuscan practice this is not just knights, who were uncommon since feudal nobility was less in evidence than elsewhere. Professional men - doctors, notaries and government officials, and professors, used this title as well. It appears that such men might be addressed directly (e.g."Ser Giovanni"). Francesco di Marco Datini himself was not so addressed, on the evidence of this book, although he was the richest man in Prato - but a merchant, not a learned man. He also did not have a family name. Datini was adopted by his family after his death. He was "Francesco di Marco da Prato," and it may be that men of the middle classes were generally hailed by their names only. The patronymic was heavily used, and probably even in direct address, except by close friends and family. Family surnames were increasingly in use in the 14th and 15th centuries, but even at the end of the 15th, they were not universal, and often they seem to have been of little relevance to daily discourse even when they existed.

You had asked -

quote:

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So this raises another historical question- Jeff is a "Knight" in that he is a mounted, armoured professional military man who commands a group of soldiers. Where is the historical line drawn between "Knight" with a capital "K" as a peer and "knight" with a small "k" as a profession? (And I am asking specifically for the HISTORICAL precedent here, not the conventions used by some of the groups.)

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Well, to start off with, we need to understand and define what the job description is, rather than title or social rank. To start off with, by the end of the 14th century, and through our era, the traditional job of the knight - i.e. the fully armed and heavily armoured (fully armed implying the harness in our era) heavy cavalryman, with multiple horses (remounts) capable of carrying a charge home on the battlefield, was often no longer of the social station of knight, but could be from the middle class (assuming the dosh to afford the gear), or from a slightly lower social station, the gentry (who could theoretically become a knight, if they could afford to maintain the expense of the 'honour' (often they chose not to as to become one was to take on a heavier financial burden).

So, you have a fellow with a couple of horses, who may or may not have the right to display a coat of arms (on the continent it gets confusing, as the middle class had the right to adopt heraldry as well), and who has all the gear so as to our modern eyes appear to be a 'knight' - so what was his job description? The answer is "man-at-arms". This term has been usurped as a rank by some orginizations, but during our era it is a job description.

Now for the confusing bit, to add to the mix, you have added military rank, and made our Man-at-arms an officer. The generic 14th and 15th (and well into the 16th) century term for a commander of a body of troops, regardless to a large degree of size of the body is "captain". An officer commanding 10 or 20 men might well be addressed as "captain" (or even commanding a thousand men) - especially if they are professional soldiers (more on that later), rather than personal retainers obligated by land holding or fee to a land owner of some social standing (otherwise it would probably be "My Lord".

A knight, however is a knight. We are most familiar with England, where the number of people holding the honour of knighthood progressively shrank over the course of the middle ages. At best in the mid 15th century, there were little more than 100 knights in England (compare that to William the Conquerers setting up 5000 knights fees), and perhaps as few as 100. It was a big deal, and a social station of some significance - not neccessarily military (and most likely not primarily military in nature by this time).

In England, the social structure was laid out initialy very ridgedly by the first Norman King, and Nobility descended from the crown directly - to the point that there are NO families in England that are inherently "noble". The tennants in chief of the crown (and they alone) are "noble", and hold the title and station at the pleasure of the monarch. By the 15th century, the station of knighthood in England tended to be confered solely by the crown.

Their families are styled "lord" or "lady" as a courtesy - compare this with the continent, where families were considered inherently 'noble' (the Coucey's are a fantastic example). A continental personage in the 15th century might well be a knight and not have the same sort of means as an English knight. On the Continent, the old custom of a knight being able to confer knighthood on a candidate he deemed suitable persisted longer, although by the mid 15th century knighthood was usually confered by a lord of some territorial significance. The long and the short of what I am driving at is that there would be many more Continental knights in the mid to late 15th century per capita in comparison to English ones. Many Continental knights would rank as mere gentry in England, so it is not unlikely for a Contineltal man at arms of the werewithal to command a company to be a knight, even if he weren't the exalted sort of personage we come to expect a 'knight' to be from our primary English speaking historical background during this era.

Frankly, I've gotten used to the idea of Jeff being "Ritter Tristan Keck" (is there a von in there anywhere?), and would be rather dissapointed if one of the very few people able to pull the impression off were to say he were "just a man at arms". Seems rather silly when you have so many "knights" appointed by different orginizations (or self appointed) with nary a horse between them (assuming they could ride if they had one), and more often than not having harness that looks like it may have been beaten out of garbage cans, or worse yet plastic.

Just my mite.

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Basically if your guys felt they were in service to you or of lower rank then you and knew you they would most likely call you mistress but if someone met up with someone they weren't sure of thier social rank other than being superior to them then they would probobly call them lady as to not possibly offend them.

As for the "Knight" thing it has to do with being made one. But by your time there are a whole slew of "country squires", in England atleast, which many were what we would consider "knights". I belive he would be refered to as a man at arms but chef or dave probobly know if that was actually used or if it is a modern term.

Bob says: " I've gotten used to the idea of Jeff being "Ritter Tristan Keck" .... and would be rather dissapointed if one of the very few people able to pull the impression off were to say he were "just a man at arms". Seems rather silly when you have so many "knights" appointed by different orginizations (or self appointed) with nary a horse between them (assuming they could ride if they had one), and more often than not having harness that looks like it may have been beaten out of garbage cans, or worse yet plastic.

Well, Tristan's father was a cutler, so I doubt very much if he is "Ritter Tristan Keck", and he is *certainly* not "Ritter Tristan -von- Keck"!!

As for the rest of it, you must have slept through the lesson ma petite chou, as we all know Jeff can't ride well enough to give a convincing portrayal of a real knight, and our Bella is certainly no real war horse!

--AM

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