Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | register | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
»  FireStryker Living History Forum   » Medieval Market Place   » Historic Enterprises   » Reproduction medieval table linens are here! (Page 1)

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Reproduction medieval table linens are here!
Gwen
Member
Member # 126

posted 06-27-2005 11:36 AM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
As some of you know, I've been working on having reproduction tablecloths and towels woven, and it has been a project that has had many false starts and setbacks. I can hardly believe I'm typing this, but after nearly 3 years, the 14th C. table linens have arrived!

"Gryphon" Tablecloth:

"Zigzag" Napkin/towel


SIZE:
The tablecloth is 60" wide X 120" (10 feet) long (approx) and has a hand knotted fringe end. It was woven 60" wide, the long edges are a discrete selvage. In the photo it is shown on the table folded in half longwise so as to best display the pattern. The napkin/towel is 15" X 80" (approx). Due to the limitations of the equipment used and cost concerns, these are woven wide, cut to width and the long edges hemmed with a machine topstitch. The machine hemming can be removed easily and replaced with a hand hem for reenactment purposes. Each piece has a care tag sew on which is required by import law and cannot be removed except by the end user, so you'll probably want to remove that as well.

DESIGN:
Designs in both have been taken directly from existing textile fragments, although I have rearranged some elements so they are not exact copies. The blue design on the tablecloth is confined to the ends. The towel has wide bands on the ends and narrow bands spaced throughout the body. These are being custom woven specifically for me, and I have an exclusivity agreement with the mill to produce these only for me.

PATTERN PROVENANCE:

Tablecloth- Gryphon

Antichi Tessuti Umbri
Tovaglie "da mensa" dalla collezione Morosini
Catalogo a cura di Amleto Morosini

Page 29
#2- Tovaglia, XV secolo
Provenienza: Valle Castoriana-Umbria
Produzione: Umbria-marche
cm 160 x 48.5 (59" x 19" approx)

Design elements used:
zigzag/bells
shadow zigzag
eagles and tree of life band
--------------
Tablecloth- Gryphon

Rassengna Marchigiana
Indice
Anno X
Gennaio - Dicembre 1932

Il Tovagli Perugine
Mariano Rocchi

Page 44
Top right
la Fontana e lo stemma perugino (The fountain of life and the coat of arms of Perugia)

-----------------------

Towel- Sassetta zigzag

Five centuries of Italian Textiles
A selection from the Museo del Tessuto Prato

Page 83
#17
Perugia, 15th C.
cm. 57.5 X 35
Prato, Museo del Tessuto n. 75.1.448

Design elements used:
Large horizontal band repeating a motif of the tree of life flanked by eagles.


PERIOD:
Both designs were taken from 14th-15th C. textile fragments. Although patterns were literally used for centuries, my gut feeling is these patterns are typical of the trend in patterns popular from the 14th.- mid 15th C.

FIBRE:
There are as close to the medieval originals as we could make them: 100% flax linen warp, 100% cotton weft, blue is indigo dyed, just like the originals. The ivory coloured body has the diamond pattern found on historical examples.

PRICE:
Tablecloth: US$64.95/GB£35
Towel: US$14.95/GB£8
These prices are correct! We wanted these to be affordable enough for just about everyone, and part of the delay was finding a manufacturer who could do the linen warp at a price that translated well for the end buyer. I'm very pleased to offer these at what I feel is an exceptionally affordable price.

ORDERING:
The "Gryphon" tablecloths and "Zigzag" towels won't be available through the website until after our Pennsic sales event in August. You can order the "Gryphon" tablecloth and "Zigzag" towel right now through a disguised portal on our website. In the "Specials" section, scroll down to find "Perugia 3" and "Perugia 4". "Perugia 3" is the "Gryphon" tablecloth, and "Perugia 4" is the "Zigzag" towel. Find the Specials section here: http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=45 . Because I have a huge amount of money tied up in these, I need to move some as soon as possible.

Here's what someone on the list had to say about the pieces they received:

"...the table cloth and towels [are] here.
They are GORGEOUS! The photos do not do them justice.
When will the rest be in? I think I need one of everything! And I am
not even playing right now!

Good job!"

Please note: I was able to bring in only a very limited number of pieces. When these are sold out there won't be any more available until the end of August. Please place your order as soon as possible because when these are gone, they're gone!

We will have 15th C. Linens available by the end of the year.

As always, thanks for your continued support and interest in our items!

Gwen
Historic Enterprises


Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Seigneur de Leon
Member
Member # 65

posted 06-27-2005 10:04 PM     Profile for Seigneur de Leon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Wow, those are gorgeous! $65.00 for a 10' long one as well! It'll probably be the end of August before I can buy one as I once again am unemployed.

--------------------

VERITAS IN INTIMO
VIRES IN LACERTU
SIMPLICITAS IN EXPRESSO


Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Gwen
Member
Member # 126

posted 06-28-2005 01:26 AM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yup, 3 years...that seems like 6! There were points in the process where I was absolutely certain that I'd never see these (like when I paid $500 for samples that never materialized- one of the afore-mentioned setback), so I can hardly believe I have a box full of pieces finished, here and ready to go.

My customer is right- the photos don't do them justice, they are GORGEOUS if I do say so myself!

Here's a photo of the 15th C. pattern being used at the Castle de Haar joust event.

Photo courtesy of Joram van Essen, used with permission

I just hope we have an event someday so I can use my sets. Things are dead, dead, dead in CA since we disbanded the Red Co.

Gwen


Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fire Stryker
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 2

posted 06-28-2005 07:02 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Come back to the east where all is green and full of Lilacs!

Saving my sheckles for a tablecloth.

--------------------

ad finem fidelis


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Gwen
Member
Member # 126

posted 06-28-2005 08:31 AM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Lilacs......*sigh*

The east may have lilacs, but you are all so.....well military...... I'm afraid creeping through the woods playing war games isn't my speed, although I admit the boys seem to get a lot out of it. No, I think I'll hold out for a more civilian (though probably no less violent ) version of the 15th C. "Los en Croissant" and all you know....

Still, you do have lilacs.....

Gwen


Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fire Stryker
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 2

posted 06-28-2005 09:02 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
We're always open to options

Jenn

--------------------

ad finem fidelis


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Brent E Hanner
Member
Member # 44

posted 06-29-2005 04:54 AM     Profile for Brent E Hanner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ginevra:
The east may have lilacs, but you are all so.....well military...... I'm afraid creeping through the woods playing war games isn't my speed, although I admit the boys seem to get a lot out of it. No, I think I'll hold out for a more civilian (though probably no less violent ) version of the 15th C. "Los en Croissant" and all you know....

If there was a site similar to say Archeon on the East coast would yall consider coming to a 15th century event being held there assuming it wasn't too militaristic?

Brent


Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Gwen
Member
Member # 126

posted 06-29-2005 11:17 AM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Honest answer, I don't know. I think a deal breaker would be if there were horses. At this point Jeff is pretty much uninterested in doing anything that doesn't involve horses, so if there was a horse for him to ride the chances would be better. Right now he's completely focused on getting something going here that will allow him to use our horses again. Me, I'm almost completely uninterested in the "dressing up" part anymore, so I'm not sure what inducement it would take to get me to an event in kit.

I think one of the big parts of Archeon or any of Joram's events is that it's actually -in- the place. I was talking to Arne on Monday about his joust event in a little village in Friesland the prior weekend and they were able to put up the "visiting knights" in a medieval gatehouse. OK, it was only a gatehouse, but [American that I am] I'd/we'd like to do stuff like that before I/we die.

Neither of us is 20 any more and Jeff can only reasonably expect to do this stuff for a couple more years. With a limited amount of resources and time available to us, our efforts have been focused on out of country events where we can doing something medieval in a real medieval setting. I think being in York at Barley Hall 2 years ago was a bit of a revelation for us as far as doing medieval in a medieval place. Standing in front of York Minster in my kit at 7 in the morning when the streets are deserted, looking up at the minster I knew -exactly- what it felt like to be in the same place 500 years ago. I could almost feel the spirits of all the people who've lived in the place; it made the hair on the back of my neck stand up, it was almost creepy. It wasn't anything I anticipated, but now that it's happened, recapturing moments like that are a goal and something I wouldn't ever expect to get out of an event anywhere else but in Europe.

Now if time and money weren't an issue, and we didn't have a business to run, we'd make the circuit of any and all events just because we could. However, life intervenes and we have to choose. C'est la vie as they say.

Maybe more of an answer than you were looking for, but I was trying to be honest, and a simple "I don't know" would have sounded flip, evasive and perhaps elitist.

Gwen


Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brent E Hanner
Member
Member # 44

posted 06-29-2005 03:07 PM     Profile for Brent E Hanner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ginevra:

Maybe more of an answer than you were looking for, but I was trying to be honest, and a simple "I don't know" would have sounded flip, evasive and perhaps elitist.

Honest answers are the only real answers. Thats about what I expected actually.

Brent


Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Thomas james hayman
Member
Member # 655

posted 06-29-2005 03:23 PM     Profile for Thomas james hayman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
York minster is wonderful. i got the same feeling (minus kit) when i went a few years ago. shame they put Jorvik there :-(.

--------------------

The allotment spot
http://tomsallotment.blogspot.com/


Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Gwen
Member
Member # 126

posted 06-29-2005 04:08 PM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
We Amercans use the term "awesome" all the time without much meaning. I really hadn't ever experienced "awe" until I went to a cathedral. Canturbury Cathedral was our very first stop on our very first trip to the UK. I walked in the doors, got about 20 feet and was stopped dead in my tracks by the view before me. There's just no way to describe the experience of being inside a space that vast, and that beautiful. I'm afraid I have to admit I stood there with my mouth hanging open and my eyes full of tears long enough that one of the nice docent ladies came over and said "are you all right dear?". I could only nod dumbly and gulp. She asked me if it was my first time there, to which I again nodded dumbly and gulped again. She patted my arm and said "that's all right, I understand. You stand there as long as you like". It took 10 minutes before I could move.

It's hard for me to be at an event in a field in California after an experience like that.

Gwen


Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brent E Hanner
Member
Member # 44

posted 06-29-2005 05:57 PM     Profile for Brent E Hanner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yea, we did Canterbury Cathedral our first day to. whats really amazing is that its only a fraction of the beauty it was in the middle ages. Half of the stain glass is gone and the walls are all white now instead of painted. If you get a chance next time your site seeing go to Chester. The city has some cool sites including the only fully extant city wall and its all in this amazing red sandstone. Go to the Cathedral and go and see the Lady Chapel. It has been redone in the medieval style and is just amazing, they were working on the rest of the Cathedral when I was there about 5 years ago but I don't know what they were doing.

Brent


Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Thomas james hayman
Member
Member # 655

posted 06-29-2005 07:12 PM     Profile for Thomas james hayman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Americans.... . try and visit some of the motte and baileys of the UK. there is one i can't remember the name of but its pretty much in-tact. its a national trust one. if you ever go to southern spain, there is a wonderful temple and museum in Evora. it is out in the open and is pretty much all there except for a few columns. there is also a museum nearby with a mosaic floor i believe.

--------------------

The allotment spot
http://tomsallotment.blogspot.com/


Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Gwen
Member
Member # 126

posted 07-17-2005 04:37 PM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I missed Brent's comment before. There are some wonderful painted walls at the Church of St. Cross, which is the official starting point of a pilgrimage to Canterbury. Thanks to Dave key for that tour.

There is also a spectacular painted ceiling and some remains of painting on the walls at Peterborough Cathedral. There is also a 15th C. clock mechanism there, as well as the tomb of Katherine of Aragon. I found it touching that people still leave fresh flowers and pomegranates on her tomb.

What little remains is spectacular in its own right, yet can only give us the barest inkling of how gorgeous it must have been when new.

Gwen


Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Charles I
Member
Member # 751

posted 07-19-2005 10:03 PM     Profile for Charles I     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Are these too late for 14th century? Regardless, these would kick butt in my dining room....

--------------------

In every life some rain must fall...


Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Gwen
Member
Member # 126

posted 07-20-2005 01:07 AM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Charles-

Gryphon and the zigzag towel/napkin are great for 14th C. (1300's) and early-mid 15th C. (1400's) use. I chose the gryphon spcifically because the motif shows up time after time in both artwork and fragments, which makes me think it was popular during that period and into the early mid 15th C. After about 1450 the designs become bigger and bolder, which is why we're calling the Chained Cats motif our "15th C." design.

The checkerboard and a motif that could be animals or gryphons can be seen in the Lombard manuscript The Story of Lancelot" dated 1370 (Biblioteque nationale, Paris, MS. fr. 343, 31v). Likewise, a design which is definately winged creatures facing one another across a spray may be seen in Apollonio di Giovanni's Aneid dated 1450 (Biblioteca Riccardiana, Florence, MS.492.75r) so we have a documented 80+ year spread for this design.


The the tree of life flanked by eagles design on the towel/napkin is taken from an extant textile and is virtually identical to the design of the towel thrown over the shoulder of St. Anne's companions in Sasetta's "Birth of the Virgin", 1435 Museo di Arte sacra, Asciano, Tuscany)

You're not the first one who thinks they'd look spectacular in your dining room! I'm actually thinking of cutting one in half and making tab curtains out of it.....

Gwen


Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bertus
Member
Member # 308

posted 07-20-2005 06:51 PM     Profile for Bertus     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Gwen,

Could you tell me, ignorant guy on table linnens, why you chose to use 'cm 160 x 48.5' measurements for the table cloths?
Today I saw Joram's 14th c. cotte that you send him. Great work . I was wondering though what your 'reference' is for the wooden buttons. Archaeological finds? Records? If so, which/where? And why did you use non-functional buttons on the sleeves? What is this based on?

Thanks,

Bertus

--------------------

Bertus Brokamp


Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gwen
Member
Member # 126

posted 07-21-2005 02:13 AM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
why you chose to use 'cm 160 x 48.5' measurements for the table cloths?
2 reasons:

1)There are not enough whole tablecloths remaining to give me any sort of guide as to the average size of a medieval tablecloth.

2) Because I knew the effect and proportions I saw in period artwork, and that size gave me the proportions I was after on a "standard" size table in the US.
The size fits perfectly on a modern 8 person dining table, and cut or folded in half longwise it is the perfect size on a 2"wide X 6" long table, which is the size a lot of reenactors use.


what your 'reference' is for the wooden buttons. Archaeological finds? Records? If so, which/where?
There is no historical basis for the wood buttons used on Joram's coat, I put them on because I thought they looked nice with that wool.

And why did you use non-functional buttons on the sleeves? What is this based on?
Economics, it costs less to make the garment that way.

If you're going for historical accuracy, the real question you should ask me is what is the basis for a 2-part sleeve. There is no basis for a 2 part sleeve that early, and my feeling is that to be really historical it should be a 1 piece sleeve, or one piece with a gusset on the seam behind the arm like the Herjolfsnes finds. To be really good it should also have self buttons made of the wool of the garment. The sleeve should fit tighter to the arm, and functioning buttons should run all the way to the elbow.

This pattern has been around a while and given that I know more now than I did when I first drafted it, it's due for an update. Even when I draft a new pattern for the sleeve, I'll still have to use modern buttons, as hand making 60-odd buttons would send the price too high for an off the peg garment. On the other hand, the purchaser can always change the buttons that come on the garment, and I am always happy to provide cuts of the body material so the purchaser can make their own buttons if they so desire.

Gwen

[ 07-21-2005: Message edited by: Ginevra ]


Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bertus
Member
Member # 308

posted 07-21-2005 04:31 AM     Profile for Bertus     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hmmm ok, I hadn't noticed the 2-part sleeve yesterday. The loose sleeve though, yes.
I understand about the buttons and that you have to make a shortcut to keep the garment affordable.

Thanks again

Bertus

--------------------

Bertus Brokamp


Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gwen
Member
Member # 126

posted 07-21-2005 10:53 AM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Joram just sent me pictures of him in the cotehardie yesterday, and to be fair it fits him about as well as it could for me being in the US and him in Holland. The body fits him like it is spray painted on which is fabulous, it gives him a good shape for a stocky guy. I think the sleeve could stand to be about an inch shorter, which would get rid of the ripples and make the sleeve sit much more smoothly on the arm. Joram sews quite well, so that's an alteration he could make very easily.

I don't think we consulted on that outfit, I guess I assumed he wanted something sort of "artisan" looking/appropriate. I loved that chestnut wool and the green hood with it. Given a choice, I think I'd give him another colour of chausses, as I don't really like the blue with the rest of the outfit. I may have to send him another colour when I send over Arne's clothing.

Anyway, back to the sleeve issue, watch for that upgrade soon. It's one of the things I plan to take care of when I get back from the August joust at Leeds.

Gwen


Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hieronymus
New Member
Member # 586

posted 07-27-2005 06:03 AM     Profile for Hieronymus     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Actually, this is Hieronymus' wife. I just saw your Perugia style table linens. They're stunning! One of my passions is studying the development of the motifs on extant textiles and I think you've nailed this style perfectly. Ooh, the tempation. Now we just need to add these goodies to the budget (which is never big enough to cover all our interests). Hopefully, you'll still have these available at the end of August. Thanks for making them available.

Andra Keller


Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mike
Member
Member # 596

posted 07-29-2005 10:52 AM     Profile for Mike     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Brent
"only fully extant city wall"

Have you been to York? the city walls, although hacked about (and nearly demolished) by the Victorians are pretty much complete, as are the four main bars or gates. One still has a Barbican. You can walk the complete circuit (2.1m) around the city.

I know what you mean about cathedrals - when I first went to Lincoln many years ago it had the same effect. Ely is very good as well, as is Durham and of course York minster. Bury St Edmunds is weak in comparison but the 14th C gatehouse is wonderful.


Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Diana Peterson
Member
Member # 749

posted 08-01-2005 12:23 PM     Profile for Diana Peterson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
re: Tablecloths;

We love you.

re: York;

If I had to move somewhere else, and had a choice of anyplace in the world, it'd be York.

I had great fun visiting Barley Hall with my Boss/friend (Roger Shell) from Camlann Village; we ended up performing Kalenda Maya for their resident musician and had a great time swapping stories with him and their shoemaker.

My memories of Yorkminster, though, center around sitting upon the steps with my husband Tim and debating with the visiting Bible Group that had begun proselytizing there. That probably has historical precedent but not for the 14th century!

---Diana---


Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Thomas james hayman
Member
Member # 655

posted 08-01-2005 12:38 PM     Profile for Thomas james hayman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Didn't the victorians rebuild a lot of the york city wall though?

--------------------

The allotment spot
http://tomsallotment.blogspot.com/


Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mike
Member
Member # 596

posted 08-02-2005 04:02 AM     Profile for Mike     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
They renovated them a lot, and also hacked gaps in them for the railways (

They also pulled down three of the four barbicans that were remaining. It was touch and go as to whether they'd pull the lot down but they were saved thankfully!


Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged

All times are ET (US)
This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2  3   

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Wolfe Argent Living History

Copyright © 2000-2009 Wolfe Argent Living History. All Rights reserved under International Copyright Conventions. No part of this website may be reproduced or utilized in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or by any information storage or retrieval system, without permission of the content providers. Individual rights remain with the owners of the posted material.

Powered by Infopop Corporation
Ultimate Bulletin Board 6.01