posted 04-04-2001 03:26 AM               

Don't go for anything that says "velour", as most velours are synthetic fabrics made for jammies. Yes, I know some cotton towels are loop on one side and velour on the other, but do you really want to make a garment out of bath sheets?

IMHO, if you want to use velvet, you should use upholstery velvet, not cotton velveteen, as the upholstery stuff is much heavier weight and has a better hang. Avoid the rayon stuff like the plague, as it is horrific to work with and crushes instantly.

As a personal observation, if it were my coat, I'd go ahead and use the brocade, as14th C. velvet use was confined almost exclusively to church applications. If you're in Cypress, you'd have access to some pretty phenomenal brocades which were being woven in Sicily, Turkey, etc. If you're going to do something you know is wrong, I'd go for the lesser of 2 evils. Check out the Fischbach book for patterns, and I'm pretty sure you'd be able to find something if you keep your eyes open. Don't bother with the local Joanne's or Walmart- I'd track down an upholstery or drapery shop and see what they can do for you. Craig Nadler (aka Sinric) was telling me he got a phenomenal deal on some imported velvet from a local upholstery shop that had some offcuts they were willing to sell him at a rock-bottom price. Upholstery shops also usually have ends leftover from projects which they may be willing to sell you for a song.

Failing that avenue, I'd check with any local theatre group to see where they get their fabric.

Hope that helps-

posted 04-04-2001 05:23 AM               

You might want to consider fustian. It was to the best of my knowledge a cotton warp to a linen weft fabric, and from my limited reading on textiles there is some indication it may have been brushed to give it a pile - sort of a 'poor mans velvet'. Good enough stuff that the wealthy Sir John Fastolf had doublets made of it.

posted 04-04-2001 09:49 AM               

Newton mentions a substantial change in fashions between 1356 and 1365, for the english right after Poiters and for the french after the kings return in 1360-61. The silohuete becomes padded in the chest to accentuate a wasp waist. Directly after Poiters in 1356 there were austerety measures put in place on the french court which seemed to include things like banning dagged hoods and putting jongleurs out of work for a year. Older methods of decoration 1350's were largely embroidery based. While in exhile the french king lived frugally but also seems to have participated in the seasonal livery colors of the english court. There are no surviving wardrobe accounts from 1362 so it is not clear what the livery colors for that year were. Maubry was a consitently popular multi colored fabric that could be obtained in different grades. The concept of livery colors for major feasts was popular in the english court, i couldn't get a feel for the french customs, and invloved selecting a color and providing different grades of cloths and qualities and quantities of furs to different people in the household according to status. Applied decoration was still in use, one particular garment is described as having leaves stamped out of gold plate stitched all over.

posted 04-04-2001 10:13 AM               

fabric originally made by weaving two sets of cotton wefts, or fillings, on a linen warp, popular during the European Middle Ages. The word has come to denote a class of heavy cotton fabrics, some of which have pile surfaces, including moleskin, velveteen, and corduroy.

Fustian probably originated in Al-Fustat, now part of Cairo, about AD 200, and eventually spread to Spain and Italy, where there were guilds of fustian weavers in the 13th century. As the material became popular its production spread northward; southern Germany and Switzerland had a rising fustian industry in the 14th century, and French weavers were making fringed and roughened fustians in the 16th. These early fustians appear to have been smooth fabrics with a soft raised nap; eventually, a ribbed pile surface was developed. By the 19th century cotton was being used for the warp as well as the filling.

In all fustians one of the sets of filling yarns is made up of floats (yarns that skip over two or more adjacent warp yarns). When a pile fabric is desired, the weft floats must be cut, a process originally performed by hand with a fustian knife but now done mechanically. The pile is brushed, sheared, and singed, and finally the fabric is bleached and dyed.

------------------
Joseph

[This message has been edited by jcesarelli (edited 04-04-2001).]

posted 04-04-2001 11:27 AM               

These are called "bezants". I asked about them in a thread some time ago. A particularly wacky late 14th C. affectation that I've never seen a reenactor attempt.

jcesarelli says The word has come to denote a class of heavy cotton fabrics, some of which have pile surfaces, including moleskin, velveteen, and corduroy.
Please note that the word "has come to mean", which is not to be confused with what it meant in the 14th C. I've heard that corduroy=fustian, and I don't buy it .

Modern costume historians generally agree (in my experience) that medieval fustian probably looked a lot like modern brushed denim or brushed twill. think "Dockers" if you will. Costumers generally eschew the use of brushed twill as a replacement for fustian because of the instant and nearly universal identification of the fabric with the trousers.

Modern corduroy is made the same way as velvet- the weft is thrown over a series of small rods which create a looped pile on one side of the fabric, the loops being shorn after weaving.

The difference is that fustian is a twill, and any ribbing is caused by the weave. Because of this, the ribs would be on the diagonal of the goods (bias). Corduroy's ribs are on the straight of the goods. To get the same effect, the corduroy would have to be cut on the bias, which would do all sorts of freaky things to your pattern.

posted 04-04-2001 07:02 PM               

Piled fabrics have extra threads that stick up at a right angle to the base fabric, and are shorn off to make the pile.

No wale corduroy has the above-cited extra threads woven in, so is "velvet", technically speaking.

I meant to mention earlier that I have seen the comment that "corduroy" is a derivation of "cord du roi" or "fabric of the king", but I believe that's a Renfaire thing, not a real historical thing. I could be wrong, but I've never seen that citation in a legitmate costume book.

posted 04-04-2001 10:36 PM            

Anna

posted 04-05-2001 09:41 AM               

Thank you for the information.

I still have one bad habit left over from when I worked on Broadway as a costumer, the 20' rule(if you can't tell the difference from 20', it works).

That is why I sought this board out.

Thanks again.

posted 04-05-2001 10:19 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by jcesarelli:
I still have one bad habit left over from when I worked on Broadway as a costumer, the 20' rule(if you can't tell the difference from 20', it works).

---

ah, the 20'/10' rule (I've heard both ).

This works well for some folks, especially those interested in how it looks to OTHERS (theatrical costumers and renn faire folks often fit into this category).

Problem is, I do this for ME< and I havent figured out how to get 10 feet away from myself yet!

posted 04-05-2001 02:34 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Ginevra:
If you're going to do something you know is wrong, I'd go for the lesser of 2 evils.

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I'm really trying to avoid doing something I know is wrong. Some sacrifices must be made, I'm sure, but I'm trying to keep that to a bare minimum.

Maybe a nice wool would be the best choice, then.

I have enough clothing now to "get by", I'd like to be sure anything new is as correct as possible.