posted 04-03-2001 03:05 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Brenna:
What does fascinate me are Lorenzo's legs. Is that some type of a guard he's wearing to protect his hose? Is it a flap to facilitate getting them on? Is it a boot flap? Either way, there's some type of gold decoration (couch work? embriodery? trim? gilded leather?) Any ideas?

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, I'm assuming the red hose and leg guard on the fellow in this detail http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/b/benozzo/magi_d3.jpg
Another suggestion that has been put forward is armour that co-ordinates and blends in with one's outfit. The modern equivalent would be ceramic plates inserted into an expensive peice of clothing so that some famous person could have bullet protection and still look stylish. The clearest example of this that I am aware of is in Mantua at the ducal palace of the Gonzagas. This isn't a very good picture (i'll try to post a better one this evening) http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/m/mantegna/2/sposi01.jpg . But the guys to look at are the ones in the center panel. It seems pretty evident that the guy in the white hose is wearing cased greaves and that the little boy is wearing a breast plate under his doublet. In a presentation at the Wallace Collection Armour Study Day a couple of years ago Christopher Dobson mentioned several inventories that suggest the presence of such camoflaged armours in the possession of the great Italian families. I don't know that he has found a place to publish his findings but would be interested to see them if he has.
In the case of this guy it could be suggested that the shape of his over garment is generated by a breastplate and fauld combination. The combination of a shin bauld without any upper leg protection is quite a bit wierd but then again the guy in Mantua doesn't seem to have upper leg protection either.

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Here are the closeups from the Mantegna frescoes in the Camera degli Sposi, Gonzaga Ducal Palace in Mantua (1474). The subject of the painting is a meeting between Marchese Ludovico II Gonzaga and Cardinal Gonzaga. Overall shots of the room can be found at http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/m/mantegna/2/index.html

http://users.vnet.net/burts/legs.jpg
First off the marchese is wearing cased greaves carefully colored to blend in with his hose. He's also wearing spurs but not any upper leg protection so it may just be a riding thing but why wear full cased greaves?

http://users.vnet.net/burts/man.jpg http://users.vnet.net/burts/boy.jpg
it may be a bit debatable as to whether these two are wearing short breast plates under thier doublets but it's concievable to me. Also what are the points for on the upper arm? I would associate them with points for a rear brace but would you really put armour on a fancy brocaded garment like that? Pretty much all of the men in these pictures have them though.

Mitake.

4/4 - edited to change the images to urls, MHB

posted 04-03-2001 08:10 PM               

I think it's armour, and for a very good reason. Firstly, the de Medici inventory of 1492 very specifically mentions a number of cloth covered armours (in the Pisan fashion, I believe). That, and assasination and vendetta was very much a part of Italian 14th & 15th century politics.

Concealed armour was very much a part of the scene for politically active Italian families. As an example some 20 years before Lorenzo was set upon in a church before or during Mass - fist being 'embraced in a fraternal fashion' by one of the assasins to asertain whether he was wearing such a hidden armour. John the Fearless often wore a concealed mail shirt for much the same reason.

posted 04-03-2001 10:05 PM               

Also, those are greaves in the picture, why they're white matching the hose we didn't discuss, but I think we understood the men in the picture were in a hunting party. (Yes, having looked at the other frescoes to the left of this panel, there are dogs, etc. and it's pretty obviously a hunting party.)

John, if you're out there, perhaps you could bring me up to speed and refresh my memory.

Oh, and the red "leggings" on the dude with the big hat are almost certainly riding boots, probably made of a very fine red leather, though the gold band over only the front of his leg puzzles me...

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Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock http://www.historicenterprises.com

posted 04-04-2001 02:40 AM               

I think the duke is wearing a breastplate; you can see a flange below his waistline, but above the lower edge of the doublet where the hosen are pointed. You don't see the same detail in the children's doublets.

Certainly armor was worn by some people at all times for protection, as Bob pointed out. Greaves worn without cuisses are a fairly common occurence in later 15th century Italian paintings. They would certainly serve to prevent chafing on horseback, like puttees. Hunting clothing is another possibility (The duke is accompanied by a hunting dog - but is this a practicality, a defensive measure, or a fashion statement?). Light armor for hunting is another topic worth discussing on its own, since there is a lot out there to talk about.

As to why the greaves and breastplate appear white, it's because the fresco is in rotten condition, and much of the subtle coloring of the metal (if it was subtly colored) has been lost. Some sorts of coloring effects were typically added on top of the plaster of a fresco after it was dry, and these tend to flake off. I suspect that's what happened here. Mantua is in a swamp, and these frescoes have taken a beating.