Since things have been a little quiet this week, I thought I would start a new topic, after rereading Kirk's biography of CTB.

In the section dealing with the 1475 expedition of Edward IV to France, he quotes from the memoires of Jaques de Haynin (an eyewitness to the English debarking over the course of a week or more), who saw a fantastic engine of war broght by the English - to wit, a gigantic plow, intended to be pulled by a team of 50 horses, and the intended use of to dig entrenchments rapidly.

In Vaughans "Phillip the Good", Vaughan quotes from a manuscript source armoured barges being employed by the Dutch in one operation c 1430.

In Diebold Schilling's manuscripts, we find illustrations of similar covered barges being used by Confederate troops during the war with Burgundy.

Have any of the rest of you come across references to the "odd ducks" of 15th century military technology? The concept need not have been successful, just thought of and made, and prefferably attempted to have been used.

--------------------

Ta

Morgan

--------------------

Ta

Adhemar

They seem to have been commonplace, more or less for any large army, from 1066 onward. Wel that's a bit of an exaggeration, but that is when they first appear.

Not only did the French have a portable castle for the intended invasion - they had in essence a fortified enclosure large enough for a town. The Burgundian field army regularly traveled with a fortified enclosure (made up of wagons), and a small fortified castle from @ 1465. By the mid 1470's though, there are constant references in Burgundian inventories of two 'houses of wood' that Charles took on campaign in addition to his huge tent. Interestingly enough, they were roofed with canvas as records indicate purchases for new canvas roofs for same, along with new tentage.

--------------------

I tried to post some links and thumbnail images here last night, and inadvertantly ran afoul of the Forum's "no html" rule - so I created a web page with the links and pictures for y'all to peruse:
http://therionarms.com/articles/thalhofer/index.shtml

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: Therion ]

--------------------

They seem quite distict from normal shipping, with a shallow drafts so you can run them up the beach, and drop-ramps for rapid offloading.

Incidentally, this is better than anything we do up to the 1930s, when the japanese pioneer "modern" drop-ramp landing craft - til then, everybody has been using normal boats, and loading them manually or via sling.

Interesting. This is really the first *medieval* reference I'd seen to them.

Not only did the French have a portable castle for the intended invasion - they had in essence a fortified enclosure large enough for a town.

Yeah, that's what I remember the citation saying. I'd *love* to see the spec for it...

The Burgundian field army regularly traveled with a fortified enclosure (made up of wagons), and a small fortified castle from @ 1465.

I'd love to see some specs on that as well. I'ts a bit late for the impression I do, but still and all pretty cool.

Interestingly enough, they were roofed with canvas as records indicate purchases for new canvas roofs for same, along with new tentage.

Interesting. I'm not sure why you'd bother carrying all the wood to make a house and then roof it in canvas... Curious.

Thanks for the Info!

Ta

Morgan

--------------------

Ta

Adhemar

The other interesting set of images I came across concerning Jan Zizka and his Czech/Bohemian rebellion. The religous followers of Hus, called Hussites created armoured war wagons or a mobile fortress. Predating Hollywood's version of circling the waggons. They were equipped with wooden wall, often times reinforced with iron straps.
The waggons were linked by chain, with wooded pavaises or stakes in the gaps. Loops were cut in the sides for either hand guns or cross bows. Protecting the gunners, would usually be flail man. The majority of Hussites were peasants. As battles were won, they would improve their armament from looted and defeated foes. Jan Zizka died in 1424, the Hussite's lingered on for another ten years.

I hope I have gotten this correct. Any errors or omissions are my own. I hope this helps with the thread.

--------------------

Other devices can be seen in the

Venus and mars, World of the medieval hausbuch, Prestel.

A selection of ilustrations from the Wolffegg Hausbuch, mainly the people born under the various houses, but also a fair bit on machinery, civil and military.

It has the famous laagered camp with the guy taking a dump just outside in the foreground.

A really excellent source of some very very interesting references, clothing, activities and of course war...

Highly recommended, only shame is that the whole document seems never to have been produced as a translated facsimile, there are recipes in the book as well (they do not appear).

--------------------

In the French's 1386-1388 plan to invade England they have a large castle sent to be built in England...but it is not called off. It gets blown off course and the English get most of it though, according to Jean that is.

RPM