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Author Topic: burgundian military organisation
Olivier de Graharz
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posted 06-10-2005 12:11 PM     Profile for Olivier de Graharz   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi, excuse-me but my primary langage is French.
I search for extensive informations about the burgundian army between 1471-1477.I possess extracts from the charles the bold ordinances from the men-at-arms book but not the complete version.Can you help me? Also I search for all the caracteristics about compagnies d'ordonnance.
Thank You.

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Fire Stryker
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posted 06-10-2005 02:40 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Bonjour,

Bienvenue au Fire Stryker.

We will try to answer your questions as soon as possible.

Jenn

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ad finem fidelis


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chef de chambre
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posted 06-10-2005 07:29 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Olivier,

You ask when I am unfortunately away from my books and papers, and will be for a week! Somewhere, I have all of the ordinances, including the household ones, thanks to Brent Hanner.

You and I are on the same quest, excepting I have been following it for nearly a decade now - are there any particular brief questions you might have, that I could address without access to my whole collection?

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Bob R.


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Olivier de Graharz
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posted 06-11-2005 02:08 PM     Profile for Olivier de Graharz   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thank you for your assistance and interest about the subject. I am a member of a belgian reenactment group named "LEGIO BURGUNDIAE / HISTOIRE DE CHEVALERIE".In this group I reenact a chief of a lance and our men wear the white and blue jacket with red St-Andrew cross.I have find near all the conducteurs of ordinances companies but not why company participate at why battle.

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site : http://legioburgundiae.arviblog.com


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chef de chambre
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posted 06-11-2005 04:45 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Olivier,

Which company in particular are you interested in? The first 12 companies were raised in June/July 1471, and were present at most of the actions engaged in by Charles the Bold until January 1477. If you have a particular company number you are interested in, I can probaly sketch you a brief history, from it's conducteurs (we reenact the 10th company, and our company had 3 different conducteurs, for example)
, to the campaigns it was present at. I am pretty sure I can even get you a company strength for the Spring of 1472.

It is important to note that in the few company returns I hav seen, none of the actual companys match what the ordinances require for orginization - Our particular company, for instance, only had 1/3-1/2 the number of arquebusiers and arbalastiers it was supposed to have, but was otherwise nearly full strength, and instead of the missing men, had an additonal 3 archers a pied per lance.

Our particular company was primarily raised in Hainault, and it's first conducteur was Baudoin de Lannoy

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Bob R.


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Olivier de Graharz
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posted 06-13-2005 04:39 AM     Profile for Olivier de Graharz   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thank you chef de chambre.In our group we have now 2 lances ne is from ordinances and the other is one under feodal obligation(still in existence).Most of our members live in Hainaut and thus I search for a company recruited in this area(region of the city of Ath, 30 km away of Bruxelles).I am very surprised of the precision of you information.The 10th Company is perhaps also correct for our group but perhaps exist also an other?Can you give to me informations about companies recruited in Brabant, Hainaut and Flanders?(With men power if possible)Where can I find these informations?

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site : http://legioburgundiae.arviblog.com


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chef de chambre
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posted 06-13-2005 03:22 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Olivier,

There is a history of the ordinances you might be able to find in a University library local to you - it was published in the Royal Society (of Belgium) annual printing, I think in the 1870's - I do not have the book in hand, but I will make an effort to stop by my condominium tomorrow and find it for you, and give you the precise date of publication.

The 10th was almost certainly raised mostly in Hainault, as the grand balif of Hainault was it's first captain - I will see if I can find any others for you. I have been reconstructing it's service history for the last 4 years, so I am most familiar with it. We portray the 3rd chambre of the 2e Escadre, perhaps if we can find you no other Hainaulters, you could portray any of the other chambers of the 2nd escadre, or any of the chambers of the other three escadres in the company.

I will get the information to you as soon as I can.

It would possibly be very rewarding to the both of us if we could concentrate on researching the same company, and share information back and forth.

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Bob R.


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Olivier de Graharz
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posted 06-15-2005 02:44 AM     Profile for Olivier de Graharz   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi chef de chambre, your proposal to reenact the same company is interesting but we need confirmation about the origin of recruitment.Unfortunately, the 10th Company is of the few that I possess no flag.Surely, we can exchange informations about the company or general informations about burgundian army or techniques.I reenact this period for more 15 years and studies the cronicles of this time(in old french), swordfighting in the XVeC.(we practice that, in full armour), horseriding(I possess a horse trained for that),and live in military tents (we have tents, camp kitchen) and artillery (we have a "couleuvrine", wheeled burgundian gun).

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site : http://legioburgundiae.arviblog.com


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Olivier de Graharz
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posted 06-21-2005 01:45 PM     Profile for Olivier de Graharz   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
After some research about the 10th company, I think we can reenact it.Where it is possible to find the composition of the companies for 1472?And for the ordnances of the Duke for 1473 I am find that London and Munich Bibliothek have one, but if anyone has a copy or a translation, I avoid to travel there...

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site : http://legioburgundiae.arviblog.com


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chef de chambre
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posted 06-21-2005 05:41 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Olivier,

I think I have the returns for Spring of 1472 - give me a few more days to find it, and the ordinances. I just got back to my home this weekend - the ordinances will be conveniently for you, written au Francais.

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Bob R.


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Olivier de Graharz
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posted 06-23-2005 04:03 PM     Profile for Olivier de Graharz   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Oh yes, thank you. I am study the book "die burgunderbeute" but,,unfortunately, the banner of the 10th company is not here...

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site : http://legioburgundiae.arviblog.com


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chef de chambre
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posted 06-23-2005 06:46 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes, the 10th company banner does not exist anymore. Likely, it was destroyed at Nancy. The 10th company may not have ben present at Grandson or Morat, as it's last captain was the acting governor of Lorainne.

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Bob R.


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Olivier de Graharz
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posted 07-04-2005 07:17 AM     Profile for Olivier de Graharz   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi chef de chambre, Have you done a banner(cornet) for your group?Because for the banner of the 10th company we have no representations, have you imagine one?Also, I thanks you if you can find the power of the 12 companies done in 1472.

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site : http://legioburgundiae.arviblog.com


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Fire Stryker
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posted 08-04-2005 08:51 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Olivier,

sorry for the delay. I'm the one that's working on all the French document projects in our group. The ordonnance histories are number 2 on my list of things to do.

As soon as I have it I will send it to you.

Jenn

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ad finem fidelis


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Olivier de Graharz
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Member # 819

posted 08-22-2005 04:11 PM     Profile for Olivier de Graharz   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
No problem. I am sure you do the maximum.
For the moment I search about if it exist in the burgundian army a form of military salute. I think no but...

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site : http://legioburgundiae.arviblog.com


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