quote:

---

Originally posted by marco:
I don’t know a lot about European medieval battle. I would like it if anyone can shed some light on my questions. Thanks
During the battle of Pavia, well-armored Frenchmen were slaughtered by arquebus fire. How did it happended? Did the chivalry died under a hail of balls (like Takeda samourais in 1575) or did they die in a hand to hand combat?
I don’t know a lot about this. Can some one explain me what really happened during this battles?
How can well-armoured and well-trained heavy-chivalry be killed buy ordinary foot-soldiers?
I cannot believe that arquebus or hallebards can pierce plate armors and kill heavy cavalry protected by plate or gothic armor. Were a full plate armor a real protection for knight?
Has been charge of heavy cavalry really effective in its offensive use during medievals battles and why?

---

Marco, I certainly won't speak towards Agincourt or Mortgarten, but I will make note of Pavia.

There is a LOT of history to understand before you can really get a good feeling for this battle, but I'll try. To begin with , the Arquebus (obviously) didn't drop fully formed, and will completely evolved tactics into the hands of the Spaniards, but such development evolved over time. The primary use of hand-firearms was in fact by Urban militia's in the 15th Century, defending walls. What the Spaniards under Gonsalo de Cordoba did was to provide "walls" for them to defend at the Battle of Cerignole in 1503. His intent had been to blast the Franco-Swiss army with artillery, but there was a fire in the Artillery park, leaving the entire defense to the smaller firearms, and it was wildly successful. Henceforth, Spanish commanders endeavoured to set up a defensive line and sucker the French into making a headlong assault (very much as the English were fond of, and effectively, doing). At Bicoccia in 1522 the Imperial commander, Prospero de Colonna, did the same thing yet again, digging a ditch garnished with Arquebusiers, backed up with Pikes.

Pavia as significantly different in that the Arquebus was now to be used offensively, rather than defensively. But by the combination of heavy fog and heavy undergrowth, the French were unable to utilize their two strongest Arms: Artillery and Heavy Horse. The fog effectively hid the Spanish-Imperialist army from the artillery, while the underbrush provided cover for the arquebusiers to get away from the lances of the heavy horse yet remain within effective range of their firearms. Francios of France made the then fatal error of continuing his futile attempts to "get at" the Imperialist arquebusiers, and though the fog was lifting, screened them from the only possible arm that could have reversed his fortunes, the Artillery. The French Horse was unable to move forward, and unwilling to retreat, so they died where they were.

The big lesson of all of these battles wasn't that Heavy Horse wasn't useful, but that it was vulnerable when stopped in front of arquebusiers at close range. The trick for the opposing force was to find something, i.e. a "wall", to stop the Heavy Horse. Ditches worked, as did hedges, but it was when at Pavia the Imperialists discovered that Pikes too would work just as well that the whole of the tactical ballance was changed. Pike blocks were moveable, if only slowly. But they provided the "walls" that could be defended.

Something that is little understood by most is that Heavy Cavalry retained it's influence on the Battlefield WELL into the Modern Era. The definition of what was "Heavy Horse" was a LOT lighter in 1800 than it was in 1500, though! Still, there is a sad repetition of battles in which the two sides contact, side A's Horse drives off side B's Horse, and then side A's Horse proceeds to cooperate with their own Infantry and slaughter side B's Infantry. Heavy Horse wasn't the absolute power that it might have been in earlier centuries, but it's decisiveness was still apparent.

What IS apparent after some research is that Infantry, both Pikes and Shot, were for the most part Defensive in nature. Swiss were able to perform assaults with Pikes, and at Pavia the Spanish and German Arquebsuiers were able to perform in an Offensive manner, but primarily the only Arm able to really bring the fight to the enemy, and perform the Offensive function was Horse. Heavy Horse. The fully armoured Gens d'arme, riding barded horses could, and did, charge completely THROUGH opposing pike squares on many occasions. At Ceresole in 1544, and as late as Dreux in 1562 the French Gendarmerie managed this feat against both Landsknecht and Swiss Pikes. Not that they did much good, but they certainly were able to occupy the opposing force of pikes, forcing them to stop while other Arms were able to then move into place. The classic is Marignano in 1515, where Francios I's Gendarmes held the Swiss in place while his Artillery made lanes through the densely packed blocks of Pikemen.

Per the effectiveness of horse armour: It was of course thinner than that for a man, but still effective against pikes and lances, though perhaps not against halberds. Arquebuses could easily pierce them... at close range, just as they could usually pierce the armour of the riders at close range. But at much past 100 yards, due to the extremely poor ballistic co-efficient of the round ball moving through air, the velocity of the bullet was reduced sufficiently to make the horse and man all but invulnerable. However, the time it takes for a man and horse to COVER 100 yards is negligable. Thus Heavy Horse could stay out of the effective range of the arquebus, yet remain a significant threat to the Infantry nevertheless. What brought about the demise of Heavy Horse wasn't the Arquebus or even the heavier Musket, but instead the wheellock Pistol, with which Cavalry mounted on inferior horses, and armed with inferior armour, could not only defeat the heavily armoured, lance-armed Gendarmerie but the same Gendarmes couldn't escape from them either, or move "out of range" if things got hot. Sadly, Heavy Horse, and with it the only really effective anti-Infantry Arm, lost it's place within a few short decades.

I realize that this is a fairly complex answer to your question, and only a partial answer at that, but hopefully I've made my point. Pavia was a turning point in the tactics of Infantry and it's effective use of firearms, but it didn't spell the end of Heavy Horse. The French combination of Heavy Horse in the form of Gendarmes mounted on barded horses, and top-notch Artillery had a good half-century of use still ahead of it.

Cheers,

Gordon

--------------------