I was wondering if anybody had a good source for a good repro of a windlass spanned 15th c. military crossbow? Also if you know of crossbows suitable for re-enactment use (i.e. no 1500 lb pull bows!)

I've considered them for "re-enactment combat", but I think they fall short of what I want for an accurate representation for display purposes. Perhaps if they offered steel prods instead of aluminum ones. Bow irons would be used.

Thanks for the info.

however, he will build what you want with what you want( steel prods and all- it just cost more $$). i like the steel bow irons as it makes transportation via airports a lot easier...you should try to get a handgonne from event to event via the airport!

I would be greatfull for any information you can come up with!

Thanks in advance.

G is probably talking about Michal Dabek in Quebec. I have consigned crossbows from him.

He is very good in the metal department, but his tillers lack shaping and elegance. He is Polish so communication is somewhat difficult but I got what I wanted when placing an order for custom work. I plan to have him make us a serpentine sometime soon, as cannon are his forte'.

I had him make a 600# prod for me and a crannequin to match. I had him keep the prod unetched, but had his wife do a custom job on etching the crannequin. He does the metalwork and his wife Elizabeth does the etching.

I plan to have a guy in Washington build the tiller for me and I'll make the balance of the metal fittings myself. It's been a pain getting the bone for the tiller table and inlay.

Of the stock pieces Michal makes, his windlass bows are best. The major problem is that they etch the prods with 16th century designs on all their stock bows. I wish they would make some stock ones with no etching at all. The best feature of his prods is that they have the correctly rolled ends on them. No one else does this. No one. And he only offers steel prod bows.

BTW, bound in prods are much more typical.

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Cheers,

Jeffrey

I have to admit the thought of a 600# crossbow scares the bejesus out of me- it will be able to put a quarrel through a car.

You may end up building the prod yourself. If you'll look carefully through Bingham Archery's site here: http://www.binghamprojects.com/
you may find the resources you need, along with your research, to reconstruct a proper prod. They have a modern bent [ ], but they carry some well respected instructional materials as well as the laminations of wood you'll need.

You might find some other useful information at www.stickbow.com

I've recently decided I would like to start shopping for a late 15th century crossbow. From my web surfing, I've narrowed it down to two places, see below:
http://www.asyn.com/sca/mas/
http://www.period-crossbows.demon.co.uk/

The second, UK fellow's work looks more accurate to me. I especially like the details, like decorative inlay in the stock and twisted stirrup iron. MAS looks a little 'clunkier', not quite as right.

I'd like to know if anyone has dealt with either of these companies or their products, and if so what opinions you've developed.

I'm also thinking more along the lines of a crannequin rather than a windlass. Has anybody had any experience with the ones out of the Czech republic (or wherever this is?): http://www.arms-armor.cz/catalog/show.php3?code=CR001&cath=CR

As a sidenote, I'd like to thank Peder for dragging me, kicking and screaming, into yet another impression.

Thanks,

1) What poundage? Putting aside historical weights, what are you going to use the bow for? IE: Do you want a low poundage bow to make it easier for practicing, not destroying targets and losing your precious bolts, or the semi real deal which will require only mechanical advantage to load, be terrifying to everyone (including yourself), and able to shoot through cars...

2) What area of europe? There are design differences. For example, a Flemish bow is thicker, shorter, fatter. A southern german bow tends to be a little leaner and longer.

3) What kind of cocking/loading mechanism? Belt loop and step? Crannequin?

Basic 101 questions asked, here a few resources and my recent experience with different people and my own nit picking point of view. (I've been looking at crossbows as Chef has been nit picking brigandines...)

One out of print, next to impossible to find, research book is Die Armbrust by Egon Harmuth. (In German.) It really describes and compares technically different crossbows and shows the small details in tiller shape, trigger mechanism and bow iron design.

The obvious question is how detail oriented do you want it to be?

Now, of the arbalest makers, each have their strengths and weaknesses. I've seen examples from most of them and these are just my impressions. I also had the opportunity last year to travel to a number of museums in Germany and got to see a number of historical examples. I claim no expertise whatsoever. I've just been able to see some existing examples. BTW, totally digressing, I saw the most awesome windlass in Nürnberg at the castle. It is a biggie. And can shoot a 6 foot metal hook with rope ladder to assault a castle wall. With a pavise to hide behind which I would if I were to fire the beast!
www.crossbows.net
Of all the crossbows Iolo offers, I personally think the Count von Württemberg crossbow is the most accurate. It has a more correct trigger for 1460 and the shape of the tiller is better. Plus Iolo is the only person who will make you a proper horn nut (which will wear down quicker than a modern steel one which is safer but not historically correct). While I have no doubt that the prod is similar, the shape of the bow irons has been changed. Also incorrect is that his interpretation is made with a whippe cocking lever. Wrong for 15thC. Certainly cheaper to make and reliable.

I have not handled an example of THIS model. Lately, I have experienced that his SCA target use models have had some crappy trigger mechanisms. And from others who excel in crossbow skills far better than me, they do full trigger jobs immediately to correct the mechanism and clean up the trigger. Higgins just acquired a basic crossbow and I'm threatening to take it away from them to clean it up. The steel nut binds and has a sloppy pull. I think it reasonable from seeing his examples that the ones Iolo makes are much more carefully done. He also has or had a few people apprenticing and this makes a difference.

MAS. Have not seen an example in hand. However he has been quite supportive in emails and willing to discuss a project. His german hunting bow I happen to like the shape the best. (stock). However, I like what he has done (based on the distant picture) of the bow iron attachment (instead of hemp binding cord) on the western arbalest.

UK. Much more expensive. But clearly more hand worked. Better and more traditional woods. Walnut or pear. I really like his bow irons. But you would need to specify time period and how you want your trigger done.

Czech guys. These guys are great metal smiths. (Sidenote that their leather quality stinks but that's another rant.) I have repeatedly tried to find out more about the crossbow and crannequin at www.swords.cz/kuse.htm
but with no luck so I'm assuming it's a dead issue. The lower left picture, btw, was snitched from Gerry's Medieval Soldier book (p60). And I was hoping to find out if they made the example, or just appreciated the picture.

As to the other CZ reference. I like that crannequin for a basic munitions grade model. Later period cranniquins had larger head gears. This one is actually closer. Although I think the hook part is a little big (too much metal) but that's just comparing it to what I've seen documented. I'd really like to know what the price is for it. The crossbow, btw, looks like crap. Again, just me.

Ok, last but definately not least. I still think Michal Dabek in Ontario is the best choice. He makes the main stock. As Jeff H. wrote earlier, his wife does the engraving. The only issue I have with this is that munitions or castle grade crossbows would NOT have been engraved. And the historical reminants I've seen didn't have them. Only the fancy hunting crossbows (or a baron's personal bow would have had the fancy decoration. And I've seen one crannequin from Dabek with decoration and it was just amazing. But... the design he uses is much more mid to late 16thC. Unless he has changed something. But... he does not make (that I know of and I could be very wrong here) horn nuts. BTW, prepare to spend.... I've heard $1000 or more. Also, his trigger mechanisms have been quite good and crisp.

Kurt from Knight's Armory has a nice picture of a Dabek reproduction. http://198.144.2.125/Crossbows/Full/HalfbowFront.jpg

Which leads me to ask a favor to any on this list going to Pennsic. (I have to work and it was a choice of Pennsic or PPII/Michaelmas.) If anyone see's Herr Dabek, I would very much like to get updated contact information from him. To have him evaluate having a military crossbow made for me. And if anyone has a digital camera, any photo's of his current crannequins would be devine! Jeff H. I know you are going. If you happen to see this and happen to speak with him, I would be most grateful...

If anyone wants to see a picture (from Gerry Embleton's Medieval Military Costume), this is kinda what I'm after. Picture shown for research reasons with gratitude to COSG for all the work they've done. http://members.aol.com/reusa/crossbow1.jpg

Friedrich
Wolfe Argent

Thanks for the incredibly detailed post! Not only is it appreciated, but it seems my thought patterns have been in the right direction:

1) Poundage: I was thinking something along the medium range, something I could load with a belt hook if I had to, but that a crannequin would easily do. I'd like to be able to do demonstrations with it. However, I haven't decided if I'd like to (or even be ABLE to) use it at some battle tactical/reenactment in the future. I'm not sure what any of this translates to, but my guess has been in the 150-200 lb range, which will probably knock it right out of the "battle-usable" category. Oh well.

2) Flemish is certainly the arena I was thinking of going with this, as I think that would a) certainly allow me to do Burgundian, b) probably be most acceptable for a quasi-'universal' impression.

3) As stated above, I'd eventually like a crannequin. Here's my dilemma: I can probably only afford to get one at a time. Logically impression-wise (and testosterone-wise) I'd certainly prefer to get the crossbow first. However, I'd like to be able to USE it before I get the crannequin.

I definitely want a steel prod on the crossbow. I also want both the crossbow and crannequin to be of munition quality. From what I've been able to determine with my emails from the CZ link I posted above, the crannequin would be about $400, plus shipping. And I agree, their crossbow is crap. Realistically, a Dabek item is probably out of my price range.

My thoughts have been running thusly: I'd like to contact the UK guy about his 'flemish' model, and see if I could simply supply a horn nut for him to install (which I would attempt to get from Iolo, if he would sell it as a part... why wouldn't he?). Get that paid for, then get one of the CZ crannequins. I should be able to install the pin in the stock to loop it around....

My plan right now is to come up to Michaelmas, so perhaps we could compare some notes and I could rake your mind for your thoughts and research?

PS: That's the same picture that inspired me.

Thanks,

Hi Fridrich that crossbow belongs to Ingo Ratsdorf, he had it custom made in Czechoslovakia, he sent it three times back until he got like he wanted it. It is hardly possible to fire it as it has a pull of 250kg
a beautiful piece but mainly for display only, that isn´t your usual toy crossbow!
Here is another photo of it: http://www.coeln1475.de/html/foto/ausruestung/armbrust00005-s.jpg

Ingos homepage is: http://www.coeln1475.de/html/index.php
as he has left 1476 and the Company and is doing his own thing.

Hope that helps a bit further, as I myself am a fan for crossbows although I prefer those slender an elegant hunting crossbows like the one they have on display in the town museum of Cologne.

Martin

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I'm sorry I missed this post. I seem to remember either a Royal Armouries yearbook, or an Arms and Armour Society journal that showed a x-rayed cross section of a composite prod, that showed how the horn and sinew layers were stacked.

Be careful if you experiment, as it would be very disconcerting at the least to have one dissasemble itself violently when cocked.

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My groups is slowly slogging along and we have thought about making our own but not sure how I feel about that. If no one does we we are looking for we might have to though.

Just wondering if anyone had new input

We got ours from New World Arbalast.
http://www.crossbows.net/

I think someone in Europe makes a composite...but can't recall the maker. I'll see if Bob knows.

(edited for spelling)