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Author Topic: You never know when to expect the spanish inquisition!
Bad Habit
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posted 09-16-2004 04:27 AM     Profile for Bad Habit     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just wanting some opinions on which order you think would have been the most common in france during the 15th c.

Cistercians or White monks-(from the colour of the habit, over which is worn a black scapular)this type I have seen in more manuscripts. They were also founded in Dijon in 1098.

Augustinians or Austin Friars, seems to have been a very german order. Habit?

Benedictine Order one of the oldest and more famous orders. Habit; Black robe, black scapular

Carmelites founded in the 12th c. Habit;Black robe, white scapular.

Dominican or Black friars.
The Dominicans were a major force in the development and maintenance of the Inquisition.

Franciscans or Grey Friar. Friar tuck is all I have to say here. unfortunatly they seem to have disappeared in the Mid 1400's only to re appear newly reformed about a hundred years later.

These are just a few of the many orders, but these are prolly the ones I can get the most info on. So what do you lot think? I think that since I'm already poor, and well to skint to do the Swiss, I can do this for various time periods for the least amount of money. all I need is an under shirt, robe, scapular, sandals, and a beggers bowl. God is my only armour

[ 09-16-2004: Message edited by: Bad Habit ]


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Ron M
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posted 09-17-2004 09:59 PM     Profile for Ron M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Not sure which order was the most common, but if you plan on portraying a monk you may want to learn a few prayers in Latin. The group I'm with has a member that portrays a Franciscan Monk. Brother Geoffrey often conducts informal services, and his stories of "Brother Juniper", which he shares at the dinner table are priceless.So if your'e serious about taking the cowl, by all means do.Just don't forget your studies!

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Ron Moen


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Bad Habit
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posted 09-18-2004 04:35 PM     Profile for Bad Habit     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, after much deliberation I've come to the Cistertians.

I've actually been in contact with a Cistercian order and if all goes well, will have the knowledge from an actual monk when I need it. As for Latin, I took Medieval latin in College, so I should be ok there.


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Bad Habit
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posted 09-18-2004 04:37 PM     Profile for Bad Habit     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
As an after thought it would be interresting being a Dominican grand inquisitor!!
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Bad Habit
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posted 09-20-2004 05:47 PM     Profile for Bad Habit     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Actually Rob, any way to get into contact with your Grey Friar??
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Ron M
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posted 09-20-2004 09:48 PM     Profile for Ron M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sure, just give me your email address and I'll forward it to Brother Geoffrey.My email address is sgtmoen@earthlink.net .

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Ron Moen


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chef de chambre
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posted 11-13-2004 09:56 AM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi All, I'm sorry to have missed this topic when it was fresh. I hope the poster is still about, as I have more time to participate on the board than I have had of late.

One of the things to consider is the difference between a monk and a friar. Monks, by definition, tend to be cloistered, and do not travel excepting in exceptional circumstances. Friars are supposed to go 'into the world', preach, and do good works. They beg or work for their bread - initially, more working than begging, and latterly, more begging - and nothing annoyed the medival lay persons mind so much as a fat, gluttonous, winebag of a worldy friar who begged instead of worked for his livelyhood.

Basically, unless there was an abby or monastsary in the immediate vicinity, a monk would not be present at an event, and their interaction with others would be brief, while they attended to their very structured day of work and prayer. By their very nature, they are cloistered away from the world.

Friars on the other hand would be fairly commonplace, and easily rationalized at an event. They also seem to be the butt of many Late Medieval jokes concerning the failings of the church (stock villians in dirty jokes about seduced wives/daughters, and the like). They were held in some reverence in the High Middle Ages, as they were originally a reforming order, and seen as holy.

It is not uncommon in the history of the church in the middle ages for reforming orders to go through a process of being seen as holy by the lay population, and very popular. With their rising popularity, and mission of reform, they are seen as threats by the established church hierarchy, with charges of heresy and the like following, and a period of persecution, and eventually in many cases the reform movement is accepted, and in a few decades due to the nature of the Medieval church, the reform movement becoming identical in 'corruption' to the rest of the church - at least in the original reformers eyes, and often in the eyes of a dissapointed lay public as well.

The Beguines are a good example of the process in part (I don't know if they fell in the eyes of the public), while the grey friars are a good example of a reforming order being seen as an eventual part of the problem by laymen.

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Bob R.


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Reisläufer
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posted 10-23-2006 05:55 AM     Profile for Reisläufer     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It seems the Mendicant oders, as stated by Bob, are the norm, With the Dominicans and Franciscans at the forefront of this vocation.

However, there is documentation of monks leaving the cloisters to go to war. In 1095, when Pope Urban II released the decree for the first crusade, he specifically forbid women, children and monks from going on Crusade. But as we know whole orders of fighting monks were created. In fact, Bernard of Clairvaux a Cistercian Abbot was an early patron of the Templars and is said to have written the charter and rules of the order, thus essentually making the roots of the Templars, Cistertians with swords.

Also, Huldrych Zwingli (January 1, 1484 – October 11, 1531) was the leader of the Protestant Reformation in Switzerland. He, himself, a Benedictine at the time, went on Campagnes to Italy with the Swiss at the bequest of the Pope.

oops late for work, will finish later.

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Me oportet propter praeceptum te nocere


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Andy T
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posted 10-31-2006 10:36 AM     Profile for Andy T     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
just a thought aren't the Cistercians a closed order and therefore highly unusual to be showing their faces outside their cloisters? Far better to go for a normal parish priest or the Dominicans? At least you can then potter about quite legitimately at events :-)

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Infa,y, infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me


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Andy T
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posted 10-31-2006 10:38 AM     Profile for Andy T     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hum aI feel a right eejit now-just reiterated what Chef said although lacked his eridition....ahem....sorry...

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Infa,y, infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me


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Trollope
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posted 11-29-2007 02:27 PM     Profile for Trollope     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You know, a few years back there was a monastary in Missouri if I recall correctly, that was making and selling monks habits, from all time periods (of their order). In order to purchase one of these authentic kits, you had to write them telling them what your use for it was going to be as they wouldn't sell to you if you were going to use it in "porn or other disrespectful uses".
I was on the queue but someone broke into the monastary when they were gone and stole most of their items, so he was going to put everything on hold for a while as they regrouped. Never heard from them again and cannot find them on the internet any more. Maybe it would help if I remembered their name and website. Does this ring a bell with any of you out there? Can you point me in the right direction for contacting them again?

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Now is greater than the whole of the past.


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