Aemma less so.

The only 3 WMA groups i've ever seen that are open to or even embrracing of proper attire are Schola St George, Chicago Sword play Guild and Schol St Martin.

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The unfortunate reality is that in the mind of the public, period dress means "Renaissance Faire" or "SCA", and we waste hours explaining the ways in which what we do is different. A white classical fencing jacket, black pants (even Venitians) and period shoes, by contrast, conjures a different set of stereotypes that more closely match our actual character. Add to this matters of expense, ease of acquisition, and the fact that the notion of a uniform at all (outside of livery, which implies the wrong relationship entirely) is out of place with period clothing, and the advantages of moving away from historical clothing become clear.

I agree that telling the public how you differ from one club or another is a waste of time. If you're giving a public demo, it's simple, you begin with a brief explanation of the techniques you are about to demonstrate and tell them that the clothing that you are wearing is based on extant finds or as it appears in the manuscript that you pulled the techniques from and that this type of clothing was worn in a specific century and leave it at that.

Venue is important for clearing up public "ideas" as well. If you're at a Ren Faire or some other Faire, be prepared to be mistaken for something other than members of a WMA group. We don't seem to have that problem. If someone asks, we tell them exactly who we are and what we do. We also, if at a faire, separate our demonstration from the main venue, or have a brochure that explains who we are and what we do. There are ways around the "public perception".

There is a caveat, if the clothing isn't "right", then the impression is "wrong" and it feeds into what <i>we</i> think the publics perception is of historic clothing.

The questions come down to, who are you trying to educate? The group or the public or both? Or is it a "comfort thing"? What's the real reason for the change? Are some people like Kevin Costner and don't like the idea of "tights" or hosen?

In the end, the groups decide how they handle things, but since we are a historical interpretation group, we have to stick with that which was worn. We also believe that in order to fully understand an appreciate the art form, you can't remove it from it's historical context, it's reason for being.

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I find it amusing (albeit in an irritated way) how in the past people had been lambasted at the mere suggestion of using period clothing with period techniques!

But anyway, as Bob said, Higgins Sword Guild does have "2" costumes - black pants and black Guild shirt; and appropriate costume for particular era portrayed. (although it has mostly been 15th century) It depends on what program is being given and where, as well as who is doing it, as members have varying degree of costume and experience with specific demos / weapons forms.

of course in a perfect world we'd have the ability to furnish ourselves with period costume from every era we've studied. That'd certainly be fun....And costume change between demos would be interesting...And it has been before!

Phoenix Swords has a different take - they use "stage" costume, which is not always historically accurate in neither design nor material - but - the idea is to spend only a little money on costuming you can abuse (or rather be abused in), and is very easy to maintain and clean without feeling guilty about it... Of course, members are encouraged to make/get more accurate costuming.

it's up to the particular group to establish thier own standards. (and certainly not to lambast other group's chosen standards)

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Andy V.
You're friendly neighborhood Roman Dude

I have of prototypes in the works which should be going out for testing pretty soon.

Oh, FYI- I've completely redesigned the sleeve on my arming doublet. I had 3 in use at the Royal Armouries 2 weekends ago, one is currently in use in New Zealand and the other will be used in the upcoming weeks in the UK.

Reports indicate the new pattern blows all previous patterns out of the water and rocks the free world.

[ 09-17-2007: Message edited by: Wolffhart ]

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I'll be wanting one after the Christmas bills - that is, the arming doublet.

[ 09-18-2007: Message edited by: chef de chambre ]

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In Germany there are quite a lot of groups doing both- HC as well as Living History. Examples are http://www.zornhau.de http://www.evocatio.de as well as ourselves, and of course, lots more.
Generally speaking I see no trend to create clothes specialiced for sparring, as the only examples I know are those duelling suits as shown in Thott for example (though I plan a reko one day, as it simply looks too lovely stupid).
The other clothing shown in the various fencings manuscripts offer no real hint of being padded for defense reasons. The Torso shape as seen in the various talhoffer manuscripts is the same as in hundreds of images from southern germany in the 15th century, and can be achieved simply by tight tailoring and fitting and a tight waist. However, there are interpretations that doublets might me somehow padded at the chest as seen in the 14th century, but only because of stability and shaping reasons, not to defend against blows- this seems somehow rediculous if someone takes a look at the tecniques and weapons used.
One of the main target is the head, and even if I aim for the torso, a zornhau for the shoulder would make bones snap, if I don't use padding which optically would extend for beyond what can be interpreted into the images from talhoffer.

The different bodx shown in some images can btw. be clearly identified as simply a multicoloured doublet, as shown in hundreds of other images, for instance the munderkinger altar.

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Diu Minnezīt
Reconstruction of textiles, armour and daily life
1250,1350,1475
Nuremberg and Paris
http://www.diu-minnezit.de

IG Meisterhauw
Reconstruction of late medieval and early renaissance fencing techniques
http://www.meisterhauw.de