Has anyone had any experience with these horses, saddles or with the corresponding bit? Even though we are less than 30 miles from the "center" of the Tenn. Walker domain, asking questions about jousting and such only brings blank stares....

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Here is a link for the type: Hillcrest Saddlery

Tucker Saddles also make a version:
River Plantation Saddle

I don't know if that would be suitable, or possibly able to be altered. Now if you want to spend some money, check out nullQuinta dos Cavallos Verde Go to Iberian Saddles, then to Portugues saddles. These are a far cry from the Indian imports becoming popular right now and you can get the base model for around $1000 US

[ 12-23-2004: Message edited by: Angelique ]

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I will have this saddle. Yes, it will be mine....

[ 12-24-2004: Message edited by: Seigneur de Leon ]

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They just called me (e-mails were giving error messages, perhaps because of the storm) and I think I am going with the Mixta saddle (the one right before the one I posted). It has a higher cantle, and they are willing to modify it as well for a more "wrap around" medieval look. The person I talked to had some experience with medieval saddles, having sold custom ones to re-enactors in Great Britian as well as jousters in the US. The "basic" saddle is around 900 - 1000 euros and shipping is around 100 - 175 euros depending on the options you choose. They have a narrow tree for Spanish horses and a wide tree in stock to fit a Friesian, but were unfamiliar with the Tennessee Walker confirmation, but with pictures, measurements and tracings would be willing to custom make one to fit. I imagine it would be more expensive, so now I have to decide whether to spend a bundle on "Old Faithful", who cost less than the saddle, or go ahead and get the stock one for the Friesian and hope I can live through his "teenage years" until we get him settled down and properly trained for crowds.
10 days with a stock tree before they ship, a week for shipping @ 175 euros, or 2 - 3 weeks shipping for 90 - 100 euros.
All-in-all, about $400.00 more for the Portugese saddle over a Tennessee Walker endurance saddle. Doesn't sound like a bad deal at all....

[ 01-13-2005: Message edited by: Seigneur de Leon ]

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Already has a wrap.

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I found this last night:

They are also a tad pricy, have any of you English folks tried them?

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Sidesaddle jousting, anyone?

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Thanks,

Gordon

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Cheers,

Gordon

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And:

The first is $400.00, the second is $570.00. Anyone know anything about these folks?
http://www.saddledepo.com/catalog.php?action=110&cat_id=15
http://www.frontierequestrian.com/getProduct.cfm?CatList=26

[ 04-04-2005: Message edited by: Seigneur de Leon ]

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Ask about place of manufacture.

I've never dealt with either company.

Jenn

[ 04-04-2005: Message edited by: chef de chambre ]

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[ 04-04-2005: Message edited by: Seigneur de Leon ]

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I know Phantom is more mutton shouldered and if the saddle pinches, she gets really opinionated. Which is why I am currently looking for a new one.

I poke around and see if I can find the less expensive variety.

Jenn

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My own Portuguese saddle is from the lower of the two vendors who's addresses you posted, Frontier Equestrian. I purchased it after they did an ebay sale which no one bid on, I offered them the price they had it at, and they took the offer. I've had the saddle for over a year now, and ride the saddle regularly on my half-draft, and I had ridden it often on my high-withered QH too.

One of the weirdnesses of these saddles is that they tend to be narrow in the shoulders and broad in the back, so they often ride too high in front, and want to bear down on the spine under the cantle if you're not careful. I had to slice some of the leather away to keep the crupper loop from wanting to bear down on my QH. The draft cross has a broader back though, so no problem there.

Another challenge with these saddles, no doubt due to the above, is that they have a severe tendency to roll on you (or rather under you). Without a breast-strap and crupper they're a challenge to mount without a block, in my experience (although I do mount without a block, I also usually have to use my weight to readjust the saddle after mounting). However, all that being said, they are solid as a rock if your horse decides to blow up on you! I've been through a couple of good blow-ups, one at a canter which wasn't too bad, the other on my former QH which was pretty intense. But like a good buckaroo saddle, I stayed firm in it, so it was worth every penny!

One thing too I would strongly suggest is to not use one of the elastic-banded English girths on it... it exacerbates the rolling problem. I had a friend who makes American Civil War saddles and tack (Doug Kidd of Borderstates Leather) make me up a good wool webbing girth, and a good surcingle too, which is semi-perminently mounted by sliding it between the tree and the leather seat. I prefer a solid hold on the horse, I guess.

There is nothing like fitting the saddle to the horse, but with the heavily padded Portuguese saddles, they do tend to mold themselves to the horse. However, I would definitely buy from a reputable dealer like Frontier Equestrian... even if you pay more, I was assured that if the saddle was returned in "Unused Condition" (i.e. use a cloth between the horse and saddle when you fit it to him) then they would gladly accept the return. Just buying something off ebay doesn't have that policy to fall back on if the fit looks to be wildly off.

If you DO buy from Ebay though, note that the pads are moveable. You have to unstitch them, and do some other movement of stitching of the leather holding the padding in place under the tree, but you can do it and then re-sew the pad to the position you wish it to be in. Something to be said for the "under $200 ebay find" saddles, you don't care if you slice them up a bit in fitting them!

Cheers,

Gordon

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quote:

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One of the weirdnesses of these saddles is that they tend to be narrow in the shoulders and broad in the back, so they often ride too high in front, and want to bear down on the spine under the cantle if you're not careful. I had to slice some of the leather away to keep the crupper loop from wanting to bear down on my QH. The draft cross has a broader back though, so no problem there.

Another challenge with these saddles, no doubt due to the above, is that they have a severe tendency to roll on you (or rather under you). Without a breast-strap and crupper they're a challenge to mount without a block, in my experience (although I do mount without a block, I also usually have to use my weight to readjust the saddle after mounting). However, all that being said, they are solid as a rock if your horse decides to blow up on you! I've been through a couple of good blow-ups, one at a canter which wasn't too bad, the other on my former QH which was pretty intense. But like a good buckaroo saddle, I stayed firm in it, so it was worth every penny!

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The biggest problem I have found with these saddles is that the purchasers are not aware that they are treeless and originally designed with a very different type of horse body in mind than most US LH people have access to ride.

Because of these factors, if you are not riding a Baroque bodied horse such as the Andalusian/Lusitanos they were originally designed for (or a horse with the same body type) they WILL frequently roll.

They were originally used with breast collars AND cruppers. If you don't use a piece of equipment the way it was designed, you may encounter problems exactly as what was described above.

[ 04-12-2005: Message edited by: Angelique ]

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I just wanted to make note that I've seen virtually every type of saddle "roll" when improperly placed, or under extreme conditions imposed upon it. US Army McClellan saddles are particularly prone to this if not properly fitted to the horse... and if someone mounts improperly as well. But even when properly fitted to the horse, those particular saddles tend to push the saddle blankets backwards, and I've both seen and experienced the spectacle of the saddle blankets being shot out from under the saddle. Very weird. Of course it won't happen when using a crupper, but since the Army quit using those after the American Civil War, it remained one of that saddle's quirks.

The Portuguese remains one of my favorites though, but I'm not sure I would say it is tree-less. Mine certainly has a European-style tree in it, though not the standard Mexican/Western tree one often thinks of. So perhaps I mis-understand your statement. Anyway, with a horse with decent withers and a broad back, the saddle is firm and very comfortable to both the horse and rider. With mutton-withers and a narrow back, I can see where it would be uncomfortable for the horse, as well as dangerous for the rider.

Cheers,

Gordon

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I confirm your points about the Indian copies of the portuguese saddles. I have one of each of the two brown ones in the post just above and have used the lower one for about 3 years sucessfully. Yes it rolls a bit unless the girth is really tight. I use one of those padded brown nylon girths, no elastic, they're really cheap at the local tack store, about $15. I've also torn apart one of the same saddles to do a static display 16th c. saddle for a museum in MS, and I can verify that it indeed has a tree, made of wood and steel strips. Not a very pretty or particularly well made tree, but effective in the European sense. I could have the one I use adjusted, in that the flocking could be altered to fit my horse better, but it's so broken in now, I won't bother, especially given what I paid for it on Ebay. It came from Frontier, as did the second one I altered for the museum job.

The suede finish saddle I purchased from Mr. Saddle via Ebay, and it is too flat for my horse and feels very thick and bulky under my butt. I could probably reflock the panels, but I don't particularly like the saddle enough to work on it. I'll probably end up turning it around if it doesn't fit whatever new second horse I eventually buy.

When we were in England for the jousts, I won a Ludomar Alta Escuela saddle on Ebay and am waiting for it to arrive. It was over double the price I paid for the Indian copy saddles, but comes with all the accessories like breastcollar, crupper, irons, leathers, etc. Got it for just over $800, but new the package would've cost double that. If it doesn't fit Petrus well out of the box, it will be worth reflocking it to fit him. It's the same sort of saddle used at the Vienna Spanish School, as I understand it.

The Indian copies are risky, but if you get one that fits your horse they're a good buy. If you want one to last, though, get one from Spain or Portugal. They're not that much more, when bought direct. It's when you go through the resellers here or in northern Europe that they get pricey.

BTW, I've seen the Hightower saddles in person at the UK reenactor's markets and they're just modified aussie or english saddles. One of them I saw was just a cover, both the pommel and cantle were very flexible, only leather and wouldn't provide any support. I suspect they're making them as movie props, not proper historical saddles. I wouldn't waste my money, given what they want for them. Get a real Spanish or Portuguese saddle instead -- your money will be better spent.

THANKS! And absolutely, on all of your above points. As noted above, I ended up having a special girth made for my Frontier Equestrian saddle, and use a surcingle besides, to ensure tightness, PLUS a breast collar. Sometimes I use a crupper too, but mine is so beat up it probably is useless anyway so I don't often bother.

I have one of the Suede versions too, and I had to tear off the pad to re-adjust it to fit my horse decently... and yup, lots of iron bars, and even some wood in there under the padding! But it's VERY broad compared to the brown leather covered saddle. Odd how they are like that. I much prefer the Frontier Equestrian brown version.

Thank you too for the information on the Hightower saddles. It confirms my suspicions, unfortunately. Oh well...

One of these days I might get a real Portuguese saddle, but heck, if I get serious enough I'll just make a call to a guy I know of in Ramona, and order a real Arming saddle that will fit my horse! I'm already talking to Steve Moffatt about some equine armour...

Cheers!

Gordon

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I've paid for it, but haven't received it yet. I'll post pictures once I get it on the horse.

Thanks everyone for your helpful advice, and thanks especially to Jeff Hedgecock, since now Patty wants one of those expensive ones for her Friesian!

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