quote:

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Originally posted by Gordon:
I love Clif to death, but he isn't exactly one to light a fire under Bill's backside to get the job done...

I am definitely jealous of Jeff's trip to Scotland though! Wow.... well, after such heady fare, hopefully he can stand playing with us mere mortals next Spring, if your schedule allows for it!

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Considering Clif needs a serious fire under HIS backside to do anything, it's no surprise he's not too successful in motivating others...

I got a "soon" out of Bill, then Marti said rules should come in about 2 weeks, and that they'd be glad to have me come up. I'm planning to compete at Sonora, even if I have to call Clif myself and get it sorted.

"Mere mortals"?? C'mon, Gordon, I really admire what you've done with your seminars up there and I've been wanting to come up to your gigs for a while, just had some unfortunate scheduling conflicts. I'm really looking forward to meeting you and think we'd have a lot to talk about. Ever consider getting a 15th c rig?? hint, hint.....

Thank you for the kind words! Still, you're the guy who's jousting with the Big Boys at Leeds, ya know...

I would VERY much like to have you, Gwen and any of your compatriots make it up to the more northerly part of California for our next School of the Renaissance Soldier! Since we're going from late-15th Century (to squeeze you in, actually!) to mid-17th Century (to get the ECW guys in) there's plenty of elbow-room.

I would REALLY like to have you on site to give some insights and demonstrations as to the realities of the Gendarmerie, what their strenghts and their limitations were, etc. Since a gendarme of 1470 wasn't significantly different in most particulars to one of 1570 to be of serious concern, it would be WONDERFUL to have you there, especially if you had a retinue as well.

It was really nifty at our last event being able to actually do some things with horses and the infantry that aren't the norm for Renaissance/Medieaval reenacting, but are pretty common among the American Civil War reenactors. We didn't do MUCH, but just getting the horses and the footmen even used to the idea of being on the field together was quite a move forward, IMHO. Now to just get that sort of interplay popularized... And BTW, I really share your frustration that there just aren't enough things to do with horses in an early historical venue. (ACW? Sure, been there, done that, got LOTS of T-shirts, but that's now where my interests are these days, LOL!)

Anyway, gotten WAY off topic here, and waxed on as well! But since there are definitely some local SCA EQ folks interested in doing period Cavalry stuff (I got a few out to one class, and actually taught another one for them, at their request, too!), who knows, might get them motivated to actually come out of their sandbox to play with us more regularly, and with historical kit, too. Well, stranger things HAVE happened!

15th Century? Hmmm... My WIFE would certainly prefer it!

Cheers!

Gordon

[ 07-11-2005: Message edited by: Gordon ]

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Many SCA people are so caught up for the most part in the social structure of the SCA that doing anything else would require a major cut back from the society.
You have newer people that want to do more authentic stuff but are so wrapped up in the pursuit of whatever reward level they wish to achieve, that to take a weekend and just get medieval is not going to happen.
We are finding this to be the case in Redshield with a few people who have expressed much interest but have not made any real attempt to participate,( although a couple have) there is always some "really important" event ... I do not fault them however as it is what is important to them, and I know where they are coming from as I was just as involved in the SCA..

Dont get me wrong I really love the SCA for what it is. Fast hard hitting combat, a loosely based medieval structure with Kings, Knights, squires men at arms and wars, some of my best friends and family.. dont get me wrong and believe that I encourage plastic and all that crap out there on the battlefield.. the SCA can do better but is its own worst enemy.. the best we can do is try to get the newer guys on the right path with good looking kits. I realise that the SCA will never look authentic nor does it want to..
I hope that will change some day but in reality it probably will not.
I do the best I can with what I have available and encourage my retinue in the SCA to strive to be more medieval.

BTW- what I love about the LH thing- shovels, buckets, mallets, camp gear, lots of wool and Linen,horses with a real job other than looking nice in the pasture, cold weather outings and eating a meal medievally as possible in said cold weather...

As for the hostility, I will say this, I have been on more than one occasion been made aware of the shortcomings of my SCA armor/clothes in derogatory manor. I have also been made to feel stupid for trying by people who are more advanced in their knowledge of things medieval. So I do believe there is a percieved arrogance issue. I can take it however, many cant.
It turns out that in talking to SCA people many have the same experience at some point at pennsic, gulf wars what have you:
hearing the snickers from those ultra cool looking medieval people when you are just trying to figure out what it is their clothes are made of and how to get that fabric and where do you get those shoes?
I was in my cotton sca tunic with a generic trim and engineer boots at my second pennsic when it happened to me. I wanted nothing to do with cool medieval stuff til Gwen took time with me one afternoon at pennsic the next year... but for one year solid, I was not of the medieval mind and turned off.. I didnt even know LH existed at that time. Point being- first impressions are hard to overcome..

Many in the SCA that I know who have less than zero interest in attempting LH for the fact that they feel that their attempt will be substandard and therefore a wasted effort..
I say this as this is the feeling I get from trying to get people excited about Redshield1391 here in Pittsburgh..
I hope to help change this.

One thing I think will need to hapen on the whole for medieval LH is that the groups need to band together and really support each others efforts- constructive criticism and all, but in a positive manor.. I feel its the only way that SCA and other people will say " hey, these guys are nice people, I'll give it a try.

I know my kit is not anywhere near perfect, I also know our group has a long way to go and we will keep plugging at it, but because I dont have it all right now, I am not going to not do LH.. This I try to get across to perspective members..
But, in this same issue are my concerns, from my past experience with medievalists are my efforts seen as substandard or are these efforts welcomed in the LH community shortcomings and all?

I have seen it both ways as well-
There are people I know in the SCA who would be fantastic in Redshield but resist because we arent good enough.. but the SCA is terrible, what do you do then? Even though just their being there will improve the group by leaps and bounds...ugh.
I also know people who wont do it because it is too much of an expence, seemingly, all at once.. which I think is an invalid reason being that where there is a will there is a way..

I do both SCA and LH to the best of my ability and it works, I love being able to do medieval stuff with my Horses in LH and I also like the SCA Equestrian stuff even with its historical shortcomings... its the SCA and authenticity is not in the rules there. But I know very good horse people in the SCA and have had alot of fun with it. And it turns out to be that redshield 1391 was brainstormed after an SCA equestrian event on the drive home..
Now that we are getting into jousting in Redshield I am very excited but I still intend to fight in Crown tournaments in the SCA and do all the pennsic stuff.. I seperate the two groups as best I can and it works.

Just a few thoughts on the subject from a SCAdian and LH enthusiast.

I began participating with the SCA in 1991. I took a long hiatus from 1994 to 1999, and then occasionally fought under the SCA's heavy weapons combat rules until 2003, when I entered into a feudal arrangement as a "squire" under Sean Garrison, AA's "Vitus," known as Sir Vitus von Atzinger, Knight, SCA. From the time from 2003 to late 2004, I participated frequently in the heavy weapons community of the SCA and was active socially in the Middle Kingdom (Kentucky, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Indiana).

During this latest period of active participation in the SCA, I engaged in an active social agenda of encouraging what I will put into shorthand as the "high game." I took full kit including shoes to weekly practices. I always brought hospitality and a pavilion to events. I engaged in and wrote about deeds of arms, and encouraged others to think of themselves as noble cousins engaged in formal deeds as they were done in the late 14th century. It was possible to do so and to pursue my ambitions toward more and more accurate kit, portrayal, and combat because I had a sponsor in Sean, and ultimately, a sponsor in the form of the then-reigning King of the Middle, Felix, but I fear that if I did not have strong sponsors my efforts would have been looked at with suspicion or with curiosity, rather than the open enthusiasm that it was met with.

As it was, I felt encouraged by the reaction of my fellow men at arms and found that they were eager to try something new, especially because I never, ever, made anyone feel less than me because of kit--I was right blithe to beat and be beat upon by someone regardless of kit. Now of course did I love it best when a stout man at arms came at me bedressed as a man of cote should? YES. But the Middle Kingdom seems a fertile ground for planting what I call the Culture of Deeds, a different way at looking at the whole picture. I saw people rethinking certain aspects of their participation.

But let's revisit this high profile sponsorship. Now, I do not know for a fact what would have happened had I not had friends in high places. But I suspect that the SCA as a group values the social constructs which are in place very much. It has been said (by Sean Garrison, whose opinion on the matter I agree with) that the emotional aspects of the middle ages, with its social chains, are very well replicated, if in its own way, in the SCA. Emotions are hard to put aside--and I don't think the power of emotional attachments ought to be under-estimated. I also agree with what has been said regarding hardcore participants in the SCA understanding to varying degrees that what they are a part of is just for itself, completely separate from any requirement to achieve even medium fidelity to what existed in the middle ages, and I agree that recruiting from the SCA is a hard road. There will be people who see it as poaching. There will be people who see the membership of the SCA as a "possession" which is being stolen by living history, if an attempt is made to actively recruit from the membership of the SCA.

BUT. That said. Changes are happening in the SCA. These changes are glacial, however, and right or wrong the tone and tenor of these changes are being directed by the high profile figures in the SCA--the great dukes and kings, and firebrand knights like Vitus. I have encountered many fellow SCAdians who are mildly disappointed in what the organization has to offer--the thirst for a new path, a new way of looking at deeds of arms, was evident in many of the men at arms I encountered in my admittedly short time with the Middle Kingdom. Rest assured a tipping point is being reached with many--but always remember the strength of emotional attachments.

Now, change of subject. I am a member of an organization which recently made a conscious decision to become a more accurate timeline group depicting military and civilian portrayals of western europe from 1370 to 1420. This decision came after a long time, and there are several former SCA members involved--this is part of the reason a fifty year span had to be considered--that penchant for "freedom of era" is a real consideration. To some extent, this decision was driven by seeing what living history groups around the world have been doing. To another extent, we are doing it because we love excellent kit and we have slowly focused more and more on a specific era. But look! We're not doing the 15th century Wars of the Roses or Burgundian Livery and Maintenance stuff, we're tackling the nasty Hundred Years' War! This is a totally different problem: what about people who are interested in medium to high fidelity portrayal of historical kit and persons, but who are disinterested in the era you like?

Next point. There will always be people in the SCA who are interested in Living History, but who cannot overcome:

1. The emotional attachments to a social construct of which they are a part.
2. The lack of presence of a group which does the era they most prefer.
3. The strict requirements of kit which living history demands.
4. The notion that you must have what your portrayal would have had to do a good portrayal.
5. The lack of organized sport which living history "suffers" from the perspective of those who like organized sport.
6. The reality that much of their kit, although collected over years and possibly at great trouble, is not suitable for participation with a living history group.

These are all thorny issues, but I believe that people will eventually fall into the activity that likes them best.

Last point: The issue of provisional members of a living history organization and kit. This is something that I would like our new 14th century company (name still not chosen) to grapple down BEFORE something awkward happens. The proposal I am going to make has an audition by a prospective member to the existing officers, and a kit layout. The sponsor of this prospective member can provide kit, if they choose to. If the officers of the company unanimously agree, the prospective member can enter into an indenture as a companion (compagnon) for up to a year, at which time review is made to extend indenture, to terminate indenture, or if the companion wants to sue for officer status, then they go through another kit and knowledge review. The onus is placed on the individual to provide kit, although individual officers can make gifts or loans, as they will. I agree however that the strongest participants are always going to be the self-directors. It requires self-direction, because you can't push a rope. If this means that we automatically non-select affable people who would make good company but who ultimately won't wash, then my position is "fine."

Anyway, a rather rambling discussion, but hopefully it raises some questions and provides insight into some aspects of the questions raised earlier.

One last thing I want to make clear is that my personal efforts have been inspired by the example that I saw in The Red Company during their participation with the Age of Chivalry Renaissance Festival in Las Vegas. And know that to some extent my striving forward in my own kit has somewhat inspired my fellows in this new enterprise. So, Gwen, Jeff, if nothing else, know that your time there wasn't utterly wasted--you may consider it a recruiting effort that eventually yielded some sort of results, even if they were unintended results.

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Db

As far as acquiring it, I don't believe that it is necessary for a participant to purchase it from a sutler. There are certain articles that my wife can make, as an example braies and a bocksten-style tunic--these from well known patterns. But the plain truth is that even such a kit as this will require some money--keep in mind that there are things which are going to be required besides even the shoes, chausses, braies, tunic, and headcovering (if applicable). Things like a knife and spoon, a treen bowl, a cup of some kind--these I would consider a minimum sort of kit: enough to stand there, look like a medieval person in dress, and eat and drink come dinner time. This is something that will cost in the range of at least a couple of hundred dollars. And something to remember is that the kit of many SCA participants, even if it contains simulacrums of these items, will be unacceptable, because they are made of inappropriate materials (synthetics, for example), or because they are made in an inappropriate manner (a treen bowl with a wolf's head surrounded by celtic knotwork, for example). That jump to LH is going to be accompanied by a great shucking of inappropriate gear (I am dealing with this now, in my own way).

I agree with your feeling that the desire to jump directly into a costly military portrayal can lead to it being done shoddily. This is another problem with recruiting from the SCA--many will not wish to lay aside their habit of portraying a man at arms. In essence coming to LH is a "demotion." Irrational to think of it that way, I know, but remember the emotional factors...

I have a fellow in mind who might make a good companion to the new 14th century company that my friends and I have started. He is not a participant in the SCA--in fact he is coming at it from a sort of whole cloth, trying to look like a medieval person sort of manner. His kit would require some work, though he has some valid peices. The arrangement I am considering offering is a sort of feudal arrangement not unlike something which may have existed: I am going to offer to loan him kit, and in return for it I am going to ask him for service--help setting up tents, guard duty, fetching supplies, and so forth. Of course he will have to go through the review process and all, but he would have a source of kit, and an arrangement whereby his duties within the group make him understand how he came by it.

I'm very glad you weighed in with your thoughts. Jere, I haven't seen you in a while, and I had no idea what you were up to. If you're at Pennsic this year please stop by for a good chat. I'd love to hear what you've been up to! The last I knew you were King and life was rough. I don't remember hearing anything about horses and joustng, so I hope you'll come by with some pictures. Jeff will be flush from 3 weekends of jousting (probably black and blue all over, as he's up against Toby every single weekend!) and will love to compare notes!

John, thank you for your thoughts as well. You too have travelled a long road, and I appreciate your insights. I understand the emotional attachments of friendship, as I find myself similarly bound to the members of the Order of the Crescent.

LHF, as I have said and others before me, LH can be as expensive or inexpensive as you want it to be. If you're on a budget you can go to the the library to photocopy some pages from Sarah Thursfield's book. On the way home you can stop at the thrift for a $4 wool blanket and a $2 sheet. You show the photocopies and the materials to your Gran, who shows you how to sew them up and for under $10 you have a doublet. We had a guy in the Red Company who outfitted himself, his wife and their 2 daughters for under $150. He bought fabrics at the thrift, sorted through my throwaway ends and pieces for useable scaps, and applied himself diligently as I taught him to sew. Joram has patterns and info on line, and I think James B. has info and patterns online somewhere.

In any case, please do not concern yourself with detouring business away from me- there will always be reenactors with more money than time or skill to keep me busy.

Though our membership is mostly SCA, we are NOT a subset of the SCA in any way as we do a lot of stuff that they’re not too crazy about (i.e. live steel, grappling, jousting, etc.) But, we all still participate in SCA events and while doing so we try to maintain our high level of conformance to accuracy. This has served to spark interest in individuals that have been looking for “something more” than what the SCA has to offer. Now…I think our case may be unique because there’s not a lot of, if any, Medieval LH happening in our region so at this early stage we’re generating a lot more interest than some other groups out there. I don’t know for sure…it’ll remain to be seen. But we’ve grown to about 20 members in our short time of existence. Our only major problem is that we’re a bit spread out geographically.

As for “recruiting” in the SCA…I don’t think any sort of recruiting would be successful. I’m of the opinion (and feel free to take *that* for what it’s worth) that you just have to be out there, approachable, and very clear about being open to accepting new members. However, I *do* think that the SCA can act as a springboard to LH for some people…after all, it did for us

As for animosity… one simple question….how many of you have heard the word “farb”? Have you ever used that word? If you did, did you think that the person who overheard you using it to describe them was too stupid to get the insult? It’s not exactly a secret code. How many of you have made “apologetic” comments to your fellow LHers about attending SCA events? Just because an individual isn’t educated about (or in many cases even interested in) authentic medieval reenactment does not mean they’re too stupid to realize that they’re being insulted. And it’s not always the medieval LH folks creating the rift…I first heard that word from an old boss of mine who was a Rev War guy. I grew up in Philadelphia and it seemed like “everybody” was into Rev War, ACW, or Buck skinning…they were extremely condescending to SCA folks, so it left me with a really sour taste for LH. Of course…I got better

The bottom line is that many folks in the SCA know that they’re not accurate, some because that’s their choice and others because they’re a work in progress. Either way, they often feel put down or the butt of jokes in the LH crowd so much of the animosity is defensive in origin. We are working VERY hard to bridge that gap in our area… and so far we’re meeting with some success

[ 07-21-2005: Message edited by: Michael C ]

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Hmmmmm........something else to think about.

You have some excellent points there! Certainly the condecention towards the SCA isn't limited to the Medieval/Renaissance LH crowd. I have had many a laugh (privately, needless to say!) at some well-fed fellow in chrome-tanned "buckskins" wearing a dead animal on his head claiming to be a "Mountain Man" and making disparaging comments about the "authenticity" of the SCA! Same with ACW and other reenactors... there are plenty of "shades of grey" as far as Authenticity vs. Farbness in ALL of the various historical hobbies, it's just that the SCA, because it has such a huge population, that gets hit because it is so inclusive. It's also rather bureaucrat-ridden, but that's another complaint-session!

With all that said and done, I guess I'm fairly intolerant towards those who make claims of authenticity but then fall flat on their faces when it comes time to actually "Walk the Walk". But for people who say "I'm trying and working on it diligently, and here's what's wrong with my kit" I have nothing but respect. That's where all of us should be (and I believe most on this board are, or they wouldn't be researching so much!), since we ain' "there" yet.

Good luck with your group, it looks as though you have a great start! Any historical venue that includes horses is a good on in my opinion! Bully for you!

Cheers,

Gordon

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LH is for people who are interested in the total experience of living "as they did then."

The SCA is for the dabbler. I know Scadians who are well versed in calighraphy and illumination for a variety of periods and yet think that a dress or tunic from Renstore or a Simplicty pattern is just fine.

The SCA rapier fighting, here in northeast Illinois, has the biggest practioners of historical fighting technique. The crossover between SCA and the WMA is pretty large. The "heavy" fighters just don't beleive that historical techniques will work in SCA combat!

[ 07-21-2005: Message edited by: Guy Dawkins ]

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quote:

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Originally posted by John McFarlin:
And something to remember is that the kit of many SCA participants, even if it contains simulacrums of these items, will be unacceptable, because they are made of inappropriate materials (synthetics, for example), or because they are made in an inappropriate manner (a treen bowl with a wolf's head surrounded by celtic knotwork, for example). That jump to LH is going to be accompanied by a great shucking of inappropriate gear (I am dealing with this now, in my own way).

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I don't think it likely that people with issues like this with their kit are going to be much interested in LH anyway. People that are going to cross the line are the folks who already have a "good enough" kit, or at least the know-how on what to make. When I crossed, I'd already made myself a 100% handsewn dress, and my other clothes had only hand finishing, no visible machineing. I had hosen, a linen chemise, etc. I just had to make stuff for a century later.

The people that I try and recruit generally tend to already have clothing. Our latest "conquest" was an exception to that; well, she did have good clothing, for the 12th century. She knew how to look "right", and she had a lot to offer with music and general enthusiasm, so we made sure she had clothes.

There's 2 or 3 people that I'm specifically inviting to our next event. They all already have good enough kits. One of them is actually embarking on a project to grow flax to spin and weave. Maybe it's easier for women, as we just need clothes, and don't feel we need to leave our SCA armour behind.

I have been lurking for quite awhile now and only speak now as I think I finally have something useful to say . . .

I was recruited into reenacting during the Bicentennial - I was given a member's manual, assigned to a mentor and told to pay my dues to the national organization (Brigade of the American Revolution). I was also told to get a pair of correct straight lasted buckle shoes and the rest of the gear would be lent me for ONE (1) event. I liked my first reenactment and was then told, "Glad you liked it . . . now here is where you go to get your own stuff." I think it cost me about $1,000. $1,000 in '75 went a great deal further than it does today . . .

I worked odd jobs for 6 months to make that $1,000, I wanted to go out with "my" regiment again. I did what I had to do to meet their standards.

Enter SCA. I was invited by a high school friend to visit an SCA meeting. I was introduced to the "Baron" and a few of the local group. They encouraged me to join and work towards a knighthood. I couldn't stop looking at the guys fighting . . . their armour was made of . . . green shag carpet . . . When I asked, with some degree of wonder, why they had armour made of carpet, it was explained to me that it met the standards of the SCA and this was the best these guys could do.

I never returned to the SCA.

Those SCA members who are still of the mind set of the group I witnessed will never understand the attitude of the RevWar group or indeed most of the people on this list.
Charlotte has made an excellent observation that only those SCA members who have already started the shift in attitude themselves will likely make the change into LH.

I came from the "other periods of LH" and never thought I would do Medieval as it was so farby. While at a juried LH event (timeline) I saw a great looking LH group that happened to be 15C. I perceived them as a decent LH group - not a medieval group - if that nuance makes any sense.

I believe the "other periods of LH" are your fertile recruiting grounds - but look for those reenactors that are described as "authentic" or "progressive."

John Ruxton

Me, I've decided not to try recruiting anywhere. California is an SCA and Renfaire wasteland, and I'm done trying. Jeff and I are actually in a terrific spot right now with this whole "medieval dress up" thing. We have wonderful friends and collegues to talk to about our mutual passions. I wish they were closer but hey, that's what I pay my phone bill for. Jeff is in the middle of jousting 4 weekends out of 7, with a total of 6 times this year- not as much as he'd like, but not too shabby, either.

I have turned my efforts to research and helping people who really want to excel do so. I'm finding it's a much more positive experience this way. I'm actually enjoying myself, instead of being stressed all the time. I think I like being a free agent.

Gwen

It's not like it is extremely difficult for people who are interested in doing a high fidelity portrayal to find the resources to do it anymore. Ten, fifteen years ago, it would be very difficult--many people had to invent the entire process. But now people can acquire much of the kit through a variety of sutlers such as yourself and others. People will do the things that give them pleasure. As a marketing guru once said, "Some will, some won't, so what?"

I for one have always appreciated your help in matters related to building kit, and your products have aided my efforts immeasurably.

No, you read me correctly. Given a choice I might say personal "fulfillment" rather than simply "entertainment", but to me one is a component of the other so you are correct.

As for the rest, it's always a pleasure to give someone a hand up. Lord knows I've been on the receiving end enough times, it's good to be able to return the favor! It really is all about community, isn't it?

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But, I've got know; did the ad ever run in the Kingdom's newsletter? If so, how was it worded? If not, can we see the prototype?

We've considered doing something similar, but I'm curious to see how it would be worded so that it wouldn't convey an 'us vs them', 'come join us we do it better', or 'poaching' feel.

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I'm yet another SCA lurker. To be honest, I'd really love to be able to do LH, but the only groups doing something similar are too far geographically. There are a few I could perhaps join ocassionally but they're too early for my taste and too focused on doing public shows of mostly military nature.

My circunstances are a bit special because there was no one doing neither LH, nor SCA, nor anything remotely like this where I live (Canary Is., Spain). I started with the idea of forming a sort-of-LH group, then shifted to the SCA because I saw that the few people I was running into were interested in different eras and with different levels of commitment, plus I found (online) SCA people who were both supportive and appreciative of things better than green carpet armour.

I think the main problem is that few people actually have the passion that makes them want to be part of an LH display. I've found people who, when asked if they'd like to come to one of my little medieval dinners, ask why they can't "dress-up in anything they like" (Spiderman, anyone?). They just don't understand why it has to be 'all medieval' (never mind 'all 1470s' if I tried that).
Make them just a little bit medievally-bent and they could do SCA without getting too much into the historic part of it. But it takes someone with a particular taste to want to dive into the atmosphere and be part of living in another era, be it as an authenticity-bent SCAer or in LH.

The SCA is more flexible in that it allows not only people of different eras, but also people with only a passing interest in history, or maybe even only in medieval fiction and fantasy. Some of these may change later, but many may not. Unless they change I doubt they can ever do LH or 'good SCA'.

I speak mostly about my experience trying to recruit in Spain, but from what I saw when I lived in Edinburgh and also from mailing lists and such, this is probably true everywhere.
I don't think it's the prizes that distract them, or the social life. It's probably that the only thing they like about medieval times is calligraphy, or sport-fighting... or they just wanted to do something "different".

Nowadays I just wait for those with at least some "spark" in them. Some may stay, some may go, some could become LH-level material probably, but slowly we're building something. Hopefully one day it'll be something good.

Anyway, back to lurking...

quote:

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Originally posted by Ginevra:
The SCA and RenFaire are so active out here that I don't think there's any chance of us attracting recruits, as they suck up all the possibilities.

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Same here. The SCA and other similar groups down here are so big and they advertise so much that it's like the rest of us don't exist. Even when there are huge fairs and public events going on, the directors totaly forget about us so we end-up learning about it in the papers.

In the end, we decided not to advertise for several reasons.