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Author
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Topic: Introducing: Pittsburghs' most eligible pin-cushion!
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Jancemeijer von Magnus
Member
Member # 695
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posted 01-30-2005 11:48 AM
    
I agree Martin, both of those groups are fine organizations. I have been in contact from a gentleman from anno1476.de as well as 'Neuss aufgebot 1474' for quite a many months now, not to mention the fine work Peder has been aiding me with. We are well on our way to having a great deal of authenticity established.One of the gentlemen I am in regular contact with is from Hessen-Kassel; the very city where our unit historically would have been mustered. Another is a history major from Hessen and a patriot of his Land with a great deal of interest in seeing our group succeed; so that we might spread the fascinating history of that area around. My own geneology has suggested I origionate from Kassel, so there in is my interest in it all. I don't mind if material is not in English, I figure SOMEONE has to translate it, why not me? It takes me a month of sundays to do it, but I've got time. I can't speak Deutsch fluently, but I know enough to get me started on translating old high-gothic texts; and I have some nifty dictionaries to help me out too. Thank you for your suggestions and your comforting words, they are greatly appreciated. We are working very hard and I hope to have the fruits of our labor on display by Muster on the Maumee in Ohio. I grew up out by there and used to visit the event as an ACW re-enactor yearly, but its been a few years since I've participated. The event co-ordinator was excited to hear of us coming. I am intersted to see if it is the Order of the Rose that will be there or the OSU Landsknecths. I used to pen-pal with some folks from the Landsknechts a couple years ago, but I've never met anyone from the Order of the Rose. I'm all about making new friends!  I had wondered if you got my question, though. You had replied about my Drill manual being too modern; To this I agree, sadly. You mention that you have a more correct Drill Manual. May I see it, so that we can continue our efforts for authenticity? Very Excited, -------------------- ~ Jason Banditt Adams
Illustrator for the gaming industry
www.Rogue-Artist.com "Jancemeijer von Magnus"
Organization head, "Magnus Kompanie"
Aufgebot Hessen Kassel 1471-1480
www.GothicGermany.org
Registered: Nov 2004 | IP: Logged
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Martin
Member
Member # 603
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posted 01-30-2005 12:42 PM
Hi JMF
as to your question several days back, I had anwsered to that right away, using the answer modus, so I am surprised you haven´t goten my answer. But should my answer be gone I will give you in short it again. The major differance, is that the orders used in the 15th century are simplified compared to modern ones.
An exact detailed ref. to where those orders are from and how they are exactly I can not give you, as it has been years since I last did a military display. Usually I am at events in my scribes office with hundreds of visitors so that I hardly get to see what the military side of an event is doing. One of the people at 1476 doing military is Dietrich Pott, I don´t know if you know him? He can give you very detailed answers to military questions on 15th century German living history. His mail address is:
dietrich.pott@sap.com he speaks fluently English so no need to worry about that.
Yes the people of the Nuernberg 1474 group are very good, and can be a lot of help!
Have been working with them for several years, as most of the German 15th century groups have very close contacts, and do a lot of events together. This makes research also a lot easier, as a lot of eyes see more than only the few in the individual groups alone.
Yes it would be great if more groups in north america appeared showing 15th century life from other european countries than England alone. As sometimes you have the impression other countries didn´t seem to exist when looking at what is displayed. That the language barrier is a problem I am aware of but maybe there will be a solution to that some day? It certainly would add more color to events. I mean thinking of all those doing a burgundian display, I would guess only a minority can speak French? In Germany those doing burgundy hardly any of them can speak French.-------------------- Verpa es, qui istuc leges. Non es fidenter scripto!
Registered: May 2004 | IP: Logged
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Jancemeijer von Magnus
Member
Member # 695
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posted 01-30-2005 05:10 PM
Thank you Martin, I have sent Mr.Pott an e-mail. I am sorry about not recieving your response, I do not know why that is.The language barrier is a problem, indeed; especially when trying to seem as authentic as possible. I am trying to teach myself German, on top of everything else, but it is difficult when you have no one to help you or correct what you do wrong. But I try. Your help is greatly appreciated. -------------------- ~ Jason Banditt Adams
Illustrator for the gaming industry
www.Rogue-Artist.com "Jancemeijer von Magnus"
Organization head, "Magnus Kompanie"
Aufgebot Hessen Kassel 1471-1480
www.GothicGermany.org
Registered: Nov 2004 | IP: Logged
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Martin
Member
Member # 603
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posted 01-31-2005 06:17 AM
Hi JMF
yes you are right learning a language on your own is hard. Although isn´t it possible to get DVD´s where you can hear the film in German?
Here you have that option on a lot of films, where you also can then have english undertitels, which should make it easier.
Thinking back to 1979 when I moved to Germany, I learnt German the fast way, as most Germans can only speak "school english" so any conversation is at the latest after 5 min. dead. So to make myself understood I was forced to learn the language fast, it took about 1 1/2 years, and I have to admit I wished everyday I could get right away on a plane back to Canada! But on the other hand during events I doudt you will need much German as you certainly want to make yourself understandable to the public watching? That is one reason why here in Germany no one uses medieval German, althought the people doing those terrible "medieval marktets" try to use a "so called medieval German" well what they think is medieval German, but anyone who has any knowledge of that would only shake their heads at that stuff.[ 01-31-2005: Message edited by: Martin ] -------------------- Verpa es, qui istuc leges. Non es fidenter scripto!
Registered: May 2004 | IP: Logged
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chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4
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posted 01-31-2005 06:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Martin:
Hi JMF
as to your question several days back, I had anwsered to that right away, using the answer modus, so I am surprised you havenīt goten my answer. But should my answer be gone I will give you in short it again. The major differance, is that the orders used in the 15th century are simplified compared to modern ones.
An exact detailed ref. to where those orders are from and how they are exactly I can not give you, as it has been years since I last did a military display. Usually I am at events in my scribes office with hundreds of visitors so that I hardly get to see what the military side of an event is doing. One of the people at 1476 doing military is Dietrich Pott, I donīt know if you know him? He can give you very detailed answers to military questions on 15th century German living history. His mail address is:
dietrich.pott@sap.com he speaks fluently English so no need to worry about that.
Yes the people of the Nuernberg 1474 group are very good, and can be a lot of help!
Have been working with them for several years, as most of the German 15th century groups have very close contacts, and do a lot of events together. This makes research also a lot easier, as a lot of eyes see more than only the few in the individual groups alone.
Yes it would be great if more groups in north america appeared showing 15th century life from other european countries than England alone. As sometimes you have the impression other countries didnīt seem to exist when looking at what is displayed. That the language barrier is a problem I am aware of but maybe there will be a solution to that some day? It certainly would add more color to events. I mean thinking of all those doing a burgundian display, I would guess only a minority can speak French? In Germany those doing burgundy hardly any of them can speak French.
The language barrier can be a problem, no doubt. I know enough German and French to be able to embarras myself in either language, and am semi-literate in both.  We are fortunately blessed, however, with a native Afrikaans speaker, who's Dutch is fluent. Other than my wifes little French, to the best of my knowledge, we are all Anglophones. -------------------- Bob R.
Registered: May 2000 | IP: Logged
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Jancemeijer von Magnus
Member
Member # 695
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posted 01-31-2005 07:17 PM
Bob, there were way too many big words in there! lol  I took French in High School and I have no idea how I passed, because I know as little of it now as I did when I had a text book in front of me! Burgundy is pretty cool though, its a shame you are only remembered by an ugly violet-brown color! Muahahahahaaa!  Martin, so you lived in Canada? Do you know French as well? I really have a lot of respect for folks able to know multiple languages. Struggling through it myself, I have renewed respect! There are some DVDs here, but unfortunately, there are a lot of companies that are not very good teachers. For Christmas some two or three years ago, my fiancee got me one of the higher-end, two audio CD set with dictionary and aid book. Its the dumbest thing I have ever pained my ears to hear! DVDs are twice as expensive and I am worried about not getting my money's worth. As far as Movies in German with English subtitles, I can't tear my eyes away from the action enough to read the subtitles! lol  Luckely, the on-line dictionary at dict.leo.org now features sound files showing you how to pronounce things. Its all a little Steven Hawkish, but its not too bad. Translating the old high-gothic medieval german texts is a lot of fun. Its a really rewarding learning experience as I find out how gullible I am:
I was translating a simple wedding contract counting the dowry. So Im translating this thing and it starts off with the familes geneology, real simple. Then it goes on to talking about the father giving the dowry and to which family it is given, not too bad. I would make one hell of a German Lawyer! But then it talks about the bride and conditions of marriage. I was shocked to read that the conditions of marriage meant that to prospective husband had to Kill someone first, but he would be rewarded with 30,000 guilders. Not bad for bumping someone off back in those days, I figured. So, I'm translating and translating and its getting wierder and wierder; then all of the sudden, it dawns on me that the Gothic scripted "M" is VERY similar to the "W". All of the sudden "Morden" becomes "Worden" (or somethign like that) and the groom is no longer killing someone, but marrying someone( the bride). The 30,000 guilder reward was the dowry payment. aaaaaaaaah OK. So note to self: M & W similar. W & V interchangable. Faru is Fraw, not Fram. And there are a hell of a lot of words used back then that are in NO dictionary!!! But its stil a lot of fun and very educational. I should be able to speak "German Dowry" by summer. Thats kind of sissy though, thats why Im looking for Militayr Commands; they are much more manly!  -------------------- ~ Jason Banditt Adams
Illustrator for the gaming industry
www.Rogue-Artist.com "Jancemeijer von Magnus"
Organization head, "Magnus Kompanie"
Aufgebot Hessen Kassel 1471-1480
www.GothicGermany.org
Registered: Nov 2004 | IP: Logged
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Ron Jachim
Member
Member # 295
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posted 01-31-2005 10:20 PM
For reading the old German/Gothic script, go to a good used bookstore and look for a book on German lettering for kids. Mine was published in St. Louis and was a textbook for German students in the U.S. I think the title is Schreiblesefibel, but I'm rusty. Mine was about $3 a long time ago -- it might run $4-5 now. It covers the gothic script, but also handwriting (cursive). In the gothic script some of the letters have alternative forms and ways of joining multiple letters together. This will probably help you along.If you can't find one, drop me an email and I'll see if my local bookseller has any more. Ron -------------------- Ron Jachim
Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged
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Seigneur de Leon
Member
Member # 65
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posted 01-31-2005 11:42 PM
quote:
Bascot, any chance that you or any of your group will be comming to Retreat to Calais in May? As long as you pack light and have time for the drive to get up there early to go and the the Higgins I should have room for you and will be driving not far from you. Brent
Thank you for the offer! I've never given it any thought as Massachusettes if too far a drive for my old van. Patty's kids will still be in school, so she would be unable to attend. By traveling light, do you mean only one palfrey and one destrier?
You realize we live in Altamont, Tennessee now, I assume. Are you in Texas, or did you move to Alabama? I assume you mean a bedroll, garb & a military outfit, - the full Milanese plate, or perhaps merely a crossbowman, pollaxe or handgunner?
I'll have to give this some thought about the details though.
You can e-mail me at: jeffulton @ blowmand.net (remove the spaces) if you wish.
Thanks again! -------------------- VERITAS IN INTIMO
VIRES IN LACERTU
SIMPLICITAS IN EXPRESSO
Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged
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Martin
Member
Member # 603
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posted 02-01-2005 04:55 AM
Hi JMF,
well the thing with 15th century German is there is no standardised spelling for one, you will find tons of variations of some words, and what can be a real bummer are the abbreviations, they have very little in common with modern ones. As far as I know there are two huge books only on 15th century German abbreviations. What then adds to the fun is when the scribe was a slob and simply "forgot" some letters, or slipped a line, a nice example can be found in the "Liederhandschrift A" von Oswald von Wolkenstein which I have as a facsimilie.
What you also have often is that things are written in regional dialects which can be very confusing! So unless you have a piece of writing which was for some kind of official purpose and writen in a clear script no chance of finding out 100% for sure what the fellow wrote, especially when it is written in a bastard hand, as bastard hand usually means only the bastard who wrote it can read it, and believe me there are plenty of books where you have that impression!
No I am not yet in Canada, but as of March 15th I am.
Once we are settled in, if you have time I would sudjest come over for a visit and you can have a look what I have got on German matierial, maybe there is something which might help you? Well I had eight years of French in Canada in school, but it is so rotten that I won´t brag with that, my wife is far better than I in speaking French.] [ 02-03-2005: Message edited by: Martin ] -------------------- Verpa es, qui istuc leges. Non es fidenter scripto!
Registered: May 2004 | IP: Logged
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Jancemeijer von Magnus
Member
Member # 695
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posted 02-02-2005 09:44 PM
Thanks Martin! We want to plan a trip to Niagra Falls for the summer; are you near-by? I would love to see what you have and envy you! Ron, that is a fantastic suggestion! We have a few nice little used book sotres around. I will see what they have. If you happen to talk to someone ocal to you and they have one, let me know, please! Thanks guys! -------------------- ~ Jason Banditt Adams
Illustrator for the gaming industry
www.Rogue-Artist.com "Jancemeijer von Magnus"
Organization head, "Magnus Kompanie"
Aufgebot Hessen Kassel 1471-1480
www.GothicGermany.org
Registered: Nov 2004 | IP: Logged
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Jancemeijer von Magnus
Member
Member # 695
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posted 02-04-2005 06:25 PM
"Barrel without a bottom"Too true! -------------------- ~ Jason Banditt Adams
Illustrator for the gaming industry
www.Rogue-Artist.com "Jancemeijer von Magnus"
Organization head, "Magnus Kompanie"
Aufgebot Hessen Kassel 1471-1480
www.GothicGermany.org
Registered: Nov 2004 | IP: Logged
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