Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | register | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
»  FireStryker Living History Forum   » Living History   » Equestrian   » Horse Names? (Page 1)

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2 
 
Author Topic: Horse Names?
lionsquire
Member
Member # 629

posted 09-13-2005 04:55 PM     Profile for lionsquire     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
So, those who have done more research that I have; every run accross period (mine: France 1390's) horse names? Froissart seems to just calls the all "horse". Any thoughts?
Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4

posted 09-13-2005 05:13 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I've got some for the 15th century, some from chasons de Gest of old (If my Norm had ever sired a foal, it would have been named pasercef - overtakes the deer), and I might have one or two mentions of 14th century horse names, but such records tend to be kept for particularly noteworthy horses. colours come into it a lot in the 15th century.

--------------------

Bob R.


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
lionsquire
Member
Member # 629

posted 09-13-2005 05:16 PM     Profile for lionsquire     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Cool, thanks Bob! Do you have any other examples handy? I guess I'm more looking for trends so I can come up with a name that would at least be plausible.
Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4

posted 09-13-2005 06:20 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Names based largely on colour

Lyart(gris), favel (chestnut), bayart(bay), place names "Savoie","le Morro", unusual characteristics (Rene of Lorraine riding a mare at Nancy known as "la Damme", and mixing the above with owners names are the usual run of the mill I come across. In the Howard books, the 1464 expedition names the men and the horses they are on. Almost every one is based around the horses colour in that example.

--------------------

Bob R.


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4

posted 09-13-2005 06:21 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
By the by, Passercef is Oliviers (Rolands Olivier) horse, as I recollect.

--------------------

Bob R.


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mart Shearer
Member
Member # 364

posted 09-14-2005 12:38 AM     Profile for Mart Shearer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
...and Gawain's is Gringolet.
Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Fire Stryker
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 2

posted 09-14-2005 07:23 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
By the way love (Bob), it's not Le Morro, it's "Il Moro". And he was Charles the Bold's.

Ayton's book is a good place to look.

Jenn

--------------------

ad finem fidelis


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
lionsquire
Member
Member # 629

posted 09-14-2005 12:34 PM     Profile for lionsquire     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Cool, thatnks for the advice! By the by, my new destrier is coming Friday! I'll have to come up with a good, period name for him.
Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4

posted 09-14-2005 12:46 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Mines barn name was 'Norm', as a foal, and I bought him at six months, and due to the weather preventing shipping (winter sets in early in BC), he had six more months out of my hands before I had him in hand. I chose 'Normandie', because it was close to his name since birth, and it fell into the 'provincial' catagory, so that all worked out well. He responds to his name just like a well trained dog - I always feel funny about renaming animals who have gone by a name for a good length of time.

--------------------

Bob R.


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
lionsquire
Member
Member # 629

posted 09-14-2005 02:47 PM     Profile for lionsquire     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm sure his barn name will always be "John", (which may be period-appropriate anyway), but I thought he might need a "persona" for lack of a better term. Granted, his name isn't "Microsoft" or anything like that....
Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fire Stryker
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 2

posted 09-14-2005 03:16 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The barn owner actually calls him "Stormin' Norman". It's cute.

Phantom is Ms. Phantom, or Princess. She is, so for events I call her "La Dame". She is usually very ladylike. (I like to brag about my girl in case you can't tell. )

--------------------

ad finem fidelis


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4

posted 09-14-2005 03:44 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lionsquire:
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm sure his barn name will always be "John", (which may be period-appropriate anyway), but I thought he might need a "persona" for lack of a better term. Granted, his name isn't "Microsoft" or anything like that....

Whats his colour?

Lyart/Bayart/Favel 'John'

--------------------

Bob R.


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mike
Member
Member # 596

posted 09-15-2005 05:07 AM     Profile for Mike     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
There is an English wives' tale about re-naming a horse being bad luck, although I have no idea where it came from.

[ 09-15-2005: Message edited by: Mike ]


Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
lionsquire
Member
Member # 629

posted 09-19-2005 03:53 PM     Profile for lionsquire     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chef de chambre:
Whats his colour?

Lyart/Bayart/Favel 'John'


Well, he is mostly Bay with a bit of white, so maybe he could be "Jean le Bayart"? That's kind of cool.


Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4

posted 09-19-2005 08:34 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yep, or Bayart Jean, either one.

--------------------

Bob R.


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Justin Holland
New Member
Member # 890

posted 10-14-2005 11:23 PM     Profile for Justin Holland     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chef de chambre:
By the by, Passercef is Oliviers (Rolands Olivier) horse, as I recollect.

I Thought Olivier's horse was called Ferrant d'Espagne??

Justin


Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4

posted 10-15-2005 11:33 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
possibly, perhaps it was Ogier the danes. It is one of that lot.

--------------------

Bob R.


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
gregory23b
Member
Member # 642

posted 08-20-2007 08:47 AM     Profile for gregory23b   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just shows how my memory works, saw an entry in a 15thc probate list and lo, two named horses:

Don valued at 10s
Morell valued at 16s 8d

Goods and chattels of John Brown, York 1474

--------------------

history is in the hands of the marketing department - beware!


Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Dave Key
Member
Member # 17

posted 09-05-2007 05:06 PM     Profile for Dave Key   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Jorge,

Are you sure those are names and not colours?
e.g.
Don = Dun (brown)
Morell = Merle = speckled black ... colour used now for the colour of some breeds of dogs and was old name for a blackbird.

Cheers
Dave


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mike
Member
Member # 596

posted 09-06-2007 01:56 PM     Profile for Mike     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yep they are colours I think. Dun is still a (reasonably) common colour today.
Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
gregory23b
Member
Member # 642

posted 09-12-2007 10:22 AM     Profile for gregory23b   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello Dave,

I got thjose from the York inventories book, and at first thought the same, however they are listed with other horses and ther phrasing is 'called Don' and callede "morrel".

Looking again, another listing has

nine maresd, three colts and six fillies at 10s each, five sterile mares etc etc - lots more horses mares and foals then "...An ambling horse called a hog t(type I guess), a trotting horse called varond*, another horse called bausond, another horse called peard.

In the same listing a few dozen more horses described as mares and amblers.

Ah well it was worth a pop.

have to imbibe soon Mike.

* mottled, just checked.

[ 09-12-2007: Message edited by: gregory23b ]

--------------------

history is in the hands of the marketing department - beware!


Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fire Stryker
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 2

posted 09-13-2007 04:45 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Bausond: is another color or marking type.

1.(of animals) having white spots on a black or bay background; piebald.
2.(of horses and cattle) having a white patch or streak on the forehead or having one white foot.

Not sure what "peard" is unless like varond and bausond, it's another variant of pie, skew, or pommelly (dappled).

--------------------

ad finem fidelis


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ken Mondschein
New Member
Member # 1531

posted 09-18-2007 05:39 PM     Profile for Ken Mondschein   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Brunellus (Latin for "Browny" or "Bay). The classic Scholastic example... or so William of Baskerville would tell us.
Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged
Roger d'Entença
Member
Member # 2887

posted 10-12-2007 07:51 AM     Profile for Roger d'Entença     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello everybody.
This is my first message.
I live in the city of Barcelona (Catalonia / Spain ) and I have been studying horse colors nomenclature since 1976. I must say that is a very interesting and difficult topic with plenty of aspects to discover.
I have to apologize because I am not very fluent in English but I'll try to do my best.
Best wishes.
Miquel ( Michael )
==================
MY COMMENTS
1.Horse names.
The main source are the Chansons de Geste. There are many wich can be consulted on-line in French or Langue d'Oc. I'll try to review my notes ( unhappyly based in colors ) to see some real names.
I will consult "Orlando innamorato" and "Orlando il furioso" ( Wikipedia ). Some interesting names there.
The "Chanson de Roland" is rather well studied in the link : http://home.ix.netcom.com/~kyamazak/myth/roland/roland-items-e.htm

2.Horse colours.
Just a resume.
"Bausant" : from the French "baucent" ; piebald, skewbald for most authors ; in some dictionaries "dapple grey" ; it seems to derivate from latin "balteus".
Worth to look at : http://www.templiers.net/symbolique/index.php?page=baucent-et-gonfanon ( The Templiers banner ).
"Balteus" , "balzan" ( and the Templiers banner ) seem to indicate that the real meaning was "white feet" ( stocking ? )
"Varond " : from the French "vairon" ; I presume derivates from Latin "varius" and means piebald, skewbald.
"Peard" : I presume it is equivalent to the French "piard". That is , piebald or skewbald. ( perhaps "appaloosa spotted" ).
((( If I understand properly there is a 1474 document. By far the oldest use of the term as far as I know .VERY INTERESTING !!! ))). http://www.bmlisieux.com/normandie/dubois15.htm PIARD (cheval) : blanc et noir, comme la pie.
http://www.geneanet.org/onomastique/index.php3?nom=PIARD

Piard
C'est dans le Jura que le nom est le plus répandu, on le rencontre aussi
dans l'Ouest (85, 79). En ancien français, le mot "piart" désigne le petit
de la pie, mais aussi un cheval pie. Un homonyme a le sens de "pic" (outil).
Difficile de faire un choix, d'autant qu'on peut aussi penser à un dérivé de
l'ancien prénom Pie. Le nom de famille a donné naissance au villages des
Piards (39), commune où il est d'ailleurs très courant. Variante : Piart
(80, 60, 08)."

3.Some years ago I published a Horse Colours Chronology/ Bibliography in Catalan language. The names and tittles can be easyly read.
"Entenent els colors dels cavalls" ( Trans. Understanding the colors of the horses ).
http://colorscavalls.feshocat.cat/
Equine coats website in Catalan language. One article in ( poor ) English about "isabella" color term origin. Contains a Horse coats chronology. http://colorscavalls.feshocat.cat/enteisabelle2.html http://colorscavalls.feshocat.cat/entekronologia.html

( There is a Spanish translation of this Chronology : http://www.chicoramirez.com/files/cronolog_a.htm
This site from Chico Ramírez has many old books digitalized - coats section only )


Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Fire Stryker
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 2

posted 10-12-2007 08:32 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Gracias, Miquel, y bienvenida.

(I hope I wrote that correctly. I'm better at French)

--------------------

ad finem fidelis


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged

All times are ET (US)
This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2   

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Wolfe Argent Living History

Copyright © 2000-2009 Wolfe Argent Living History. All Rights reserved under International Copyright Conventions. No part of this website may be reproduced or utilized in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or by any information storage or retrieval system, without permission of the content providers. Individual rights remain with the owners of the posted material.

Powered by Infopop Corporation
Ultimate Bulletin Board 6.01