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Author Topic: Movies with accurate costumes?
Ivo
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posted 07-02-2002 12:04 PM     Profile for Ivo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello.

I think, we all agree that a movie won´t ever save us a lot of reading, but- there are quite a few that are truly worth their money (if available). One of my favourites, from the perspective of a costume and armour aficionado, is

Shakespeare´s "Henry V", the 1946 version starring Laurence Olivier. Beats the 199o´s version by Kenneth Branagh in almost any respect.
Funnily, it begins inside the Globe Theatre, "London 1500" with the actors in costumes that look like someone around 1500 had tried to imagine what 15th century clothes might have looked like. With the travel to Calais, which is shown with model ships on a cellophane sea, the scenery shifts into the 15th century with GREAT costumes and armour(Bascinets! Banners! Horse Bardings! Medieval Saddles!), real horses and lots of people. Okay, the battle scenes are not as brutal and dirty as for example in "Braveheart", but they spent a lot of work and time on details like spurs, horse equipment, tents and the like.
One strange aspect is that one always has a feeling of watching a play because a lot of the backgrounds are purely scenery, painted after medieval illuminations like the book of hours of the Duke de Berry, including the strange perspectives of the latter. Watching this film made me feel like looking into a medieval manuscript and seeing the scenery come alive.
There´s only one drawback about this splendid film- since I first watched it, most other films seem quite dull...;o)

Regards

Ivo

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Ivo


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Gwen
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posted 07-02-2002 03:39 PM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm assuming you're looking for a medieval movie, so that rules out "Dangerous Liasons" and "The Duellists".

From the perspective of most accurate portrayal of period clothing and accoutemont I vote for the French version of Joan of Arc. Really, really, really good. It's a French film so it's very slow but there isn't much wrong with it.

I could bore you with the technical reasons why absolute historical accuracy isn't always a good thing in a movie intended for an uneducated modern audience, but allow me say that in my opinion some of the best and most effective "costumes" in recent movies were in Mel Gibson's "Hamlet", and Branaugh's "Henry V". Short on "accuracy" but high on "effect" which is the purpose of an entertainment, not education medium.

JMO!

Gwen


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Ivo
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posted 07-03-2002 08:07 AM     Profile for Ivo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think we should find a synonym for "accurate" ?!
Something like "Well-made films, inspiring for further research and a treat to watch, showing well-made period costumes and armour"?!

Joan of Arc. Hmm.
There´s a 1990s (1993?) movie starring Sandrine Bonnaire (?), which is well-equipped. But to my mind the armour had a flimsy, aluminium-like appearance, and most of the costumes had that "inspired by"-flavour. Not a bad one, but not my favourite.

Another version of the topic is from 1959, starring Jean Seberg and directed by Otto Preminger. It is Based upon George Bernard Shaw´s play, the scenery mostly looks like cardboard and canvas, but the costumes are great. Pretty much influenced by the Duke de Berry´s book of hours, and the first dagged edges on movie costumes that gave me the feeling of looking at the real thing.

The latest version starring Milla Jovovic made me mad. After all the rumours about historically accurate armour and painstaking research I was a bit annoyed about these clumsy, spiked metal hunks that looked like a 15th century nightmare of Warhammer Ultra Marines. The only good thing about this flick was the fact, that most of the characters wore quilted arming doublets instead of the multi-laced black leather jackets familiar from other productions.
On the other hand- it was a great source of inspiration for my LARP actvities;o)

Last, but not least: The famous one starring Ingrid Bergman. The only real drawback about it are the heavnly "shalala"-choirs on the soundtrack and the constantly-suffering main role.

Regards

Ivo

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Ivo


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Wolfes Company
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posted 07-04-2002 01:29 PM     Profile for Wolfes Company     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The Advocate has some passable clothing and setting with a good atmosphere
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Ivo
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posted 07-04-2002 02:04 PM     Profile for Ivo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just stumbled over a video cassette in the second row of my cupboard, found the 1993 French Joan of Arc- many armour bits look like 17th century stuff (broad tassets, pikeman-style), but the film still retains some quite fine details.

The Advocate? Do you mean that 15th century setting, playing in france, about a lawyer who in court has to defend a pig? If yes, I know it under the title "The Hour of the Pig". Great costumes.

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Ivo


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Wolfes Company
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posted 07-04-2002 06:54 PM     Profile for Wolfes Company     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That's the one that movie is great.
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Ivo
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posted 07-13-2002 01:52 PM     Profile for Ivo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Another suggestion:

I am not sure whether this one has ever been published in English. It is a Polish production which is set around the battle of Tannenberg/Grunwald in 1425 (?), when the Polish and their allies defeated the Teutonic Order. It is based upon a book by Hendryk Synkiewicz who also wrote "Quo Vadis", and in German was given the title "The Crusaders"*.
Apart from details, like that the armour was probably made of plastic and the clothes of very, VERY colourful fabrics (plus the fact, that the movie dates from the 1950s and therefore was made in "Technikowskykolor"), the styles of armour and clothing to me seemed pretty close to the original.

Regards

Ivo

*In Poland the Knights of the Teutonic Orders still are called by the polish equivalent for "Crusaders", which name also serves as a nickname for the inhabitants of towns like Thorn (now in Poland, Torùn in Polish) that were founded by the Order. As far as I know, "Crusaders" is either the name or nickname of a football club in the city of Thorn.

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Ivo


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Anne-Marie
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posted 07-16-2002 10:31 AM     Profile for Anne-Marie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ivo:

The Advocate? Do you mean that 15th century setting, playing in france, about a lawyer who in court has to defend a pig? If yes, I know it under the title "The Hour of the Pig". Great costumes.

oooo...Colin Firth in 15th century getup....or not.....

fun movie indeed, and great costumes for the guys. I dont remember the gals costumes very well, which suggests that they didnt do much with them (which is often the case when the star is male...Kenneth Branaughs HenryV was the same way)

-AM

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"Let Good Come of It"


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Neb
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posted 04-29-2004 01:34 AM     Profile for Neb   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Anybody else ever catch "Shadow of the Raven" ("Í skugga hrafnsins")? Iceland, 1988, re-telling of Tristan & Isolde in an amazing setting! I saw it in a little art house when it went around the US, and I'd love to own a copy but can't find it anywhere. Very Medieval costuming and overall production design (right down to those great Icelandic ponies).

Neb (hello all: first post...)

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Fortus fortuna uvat!


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Martin
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posted 05-08-2004 03:23 AM     Profile for Martin     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

[ 09-01-2004: Message edited by: Martin ]

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Verpa es, qui istuc leges. Non es fidenter scripto!


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Martin
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posted 06-15-2004 06:31 AM     Profile for Martin     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

[ 09-01-2004: Message edited by: Martin ]

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Verpa es, qui istuc leges. Non es fidenter scripto!


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Fire Stryker
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posted 06-15-2004 08:13 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Neb,

I've been looking and thus far all I can find is just a movie site that gives details on the film but haven't been able to find it on VHS or DVD.

Í skugga hrafnsins(1988)is also known by these names:

  • In the Shadow of the Raven (1990) (USA)
  • Korpens skugga (1988)
  • Ravnens skygge (1988) (Norway)
  • Shadow of the Raven, The (1988)

Runtime: 124 min
Country: Iceland / Sweden / Norway
Language: Icelandic

You might want to try writing to this address.

Findforme@au-cinema.com

Au-cinema specializes in finding foreign films.

Hope this helps,

Jenn

(edited for tag typo)

[ 06-15-2004: Message edited by: Fire Stryker ]

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ad finem fidelis


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Otto von Teich
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posted 06-19-2004 12:39 AM     Profile for Otto von Teich   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The Warlord, with Charlton Heston and Richard Boone, Been quite a few years since I've seen it,but it seems the costumes, clothing and sets were pretty acurate for the period. ...Otto
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Wolf
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posted 06-21-2004 09:24 AM     Profile for Wolf   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
OOO OOO OOO 13th warrior, ya that was all period! no questions asked.

HA-HA jk

warlord, that wasnt too bad on the armour scale. what about like 300 spartans, or other old movies like that?

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Chuck Russell


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Nathan Hoin
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posted 06-30-2006 03:57 AM     Profile for Nathan Hoin     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hmm, good historical movies -clothing wise-
Right I can only think of some truly stellar French films, both in the 16th century. Lucky for me, that is my period of interest!

La Reine Margot (Queen Margot)(1994) is a very, very well done movie about the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre. Weapons and armour are surprising accurate (perhaps off by ten years, but fashion seemed to change faster in the 16c. than it does today!) Costumes for the characters are theatrical, but the extras are spot on (movie paradox?) In addition, the characters feel real, not like modern stereotypes.

Also The Return of Martin Guerre (?) based on the microhistory by historian Natalie Zemon Davis and starring Gerrard Depardeu is a very very good look at peasants life circa 1550.

I also hear the film New World, with Collin Ferrel of all people, is supposed to be very good on armour/costume, but I haven't seen it.

Also, remembering back to childhood, there was an A&E special of Ivanhoe, with a pretty decent cast. I thought the costumes/armour was amazing at the time. I can't attest to it now, I haven't seen it since I was 14. Good luck getting a hold of it, my VHS set cost $80.

Also watch the Duellists, its just an amazing story and movie, great character and detail that anyone who appreciates history can admire.

Over all, I'd say search out French films, they are great about historical detail (actually they seem to pay more attention to real life in general, even modern). I'll search for some medieval examples...

BTW, no one mentioned Dragonheart!


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Charles I
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posted 06-30-2006 08:01 PM     Profile for Charles I     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Another French movie: "The Visitors" with Jean Reno and Christian Clavier. A comedy set in the 14th century and modern day France . The only medieval movie I have seen with men wearing chausses and braies instead of trousers.

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In every life some rain must fall...


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Sir Lawrence d'Hastings
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posted 07-04-2006 04:33 AM     Profile for Sir Lawrence d'Hastings     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ah, "The Visitors" (les visiteurs) is great indeed, not because of it's high authenticity rate but because it's really funny, for example, when the squire (Clavier) discovers a telephone and blows on his war-horn, deafening the listener, who is waiting for the other telephonist to return.

It starts not in the 14th century though, but in the 12th, during the reign of Louis VIII I think, during the wars between him and Henry II over Aquitaine.

Another movie in which they showed something like braies and chausses, but only on one person, was "Timeline" about a team of archaeologists who find a way to get into a castle in France in the Hundred Years' War. The armour is acceptable, the clothing is horrible. Also, the fact that the two parties are in nice uniform colour is a bit annoying (red for English, blue for French). And the plot is really weird, but there is some nice action which is not too unplausible.

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Laurens Johanss Lewe, Deventer Burgher


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Wolf
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posted 07-04-2006 07:28 AM     Profile for Wolf   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
timeline? are you KIDDING??????? i own the movie and cant bring myself to watch it. the armour is not up to par and it just plain sucks.

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Chuck Russell


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Sir Lawrence d'Hastings
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posted 07-04-2006 10:40 AM     Profile for Sir Lawrence d'Hastings     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
All right all right, it has been a while since I've seen it. But you can see the armour was at least based upon something. Their attempt to restrict weaponry to bascinets, early plate-armour and hauberks is better than just anything. Though you are right: most of the film is awful.

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Laurens Johanss Lewe, Deventer Burgher


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jboerner
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posted 07-05-2006 09:25 AM     Profile for jboerner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hm; in fact I quite like it, just because of the armour shown. Which was made of plastic
I love the book, i disliek the movie because of what it made out of the story of the book, but i like the splinted armour shown, which is actually quite accurate for this period. Also some Helmets and Body armour.
Of course there are still lots of errors, but in this case it's lots better than, for instance, our all-time favourite willy wallace

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Diu Minnezît
Reconstruction of textiles, armour and daily life
1250,1350,1475
Nuremberg and Paris
http://www.diu-minnezit.de

IG Meisterhauw
Reconstruction of late medieval and early renaissance fencing techniques
http://www.meisterhauw.de

Nuremberg in the middle ages
http://www.nuernberg-im-mittelalter.de


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Gwen
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posted 07-05-2006 11:33 AM     Profile for Gwen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just saw the film "Stealing Heaven" last night for the first time. It's the story of Abelard and Heloise, and I thought it was incredible. The lines and colours of the clothes (if not the fabrics, which looked to me to be knits) were very, very good, and the details in everything from the horse tack to reliquaries was outstanding. The story was very faithful to history, which amazed me.

A bit sexy so don't be shocked, and the music (aside from the medieval bits which are wonderful) is very dated and awful.

Gwen


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Matthias
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posted 07-13-2006 02:27 PM     Profile for Matthias     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
."timeline? are you KIDDING??????? i own the movie and cant bring myself to watch it. the armour is not up to par and it just plain sucks."

Hmm. thanks a bunch wolf, while i agree it was definitely out of period it didn't suck, for my sins i worked on that armour, i don't know why the hell they didn't go fourteenth century would've looked a damn site better, ah well.
However, all the armour articulated exactly as it should have done, poleyns, gauntlets etc... encyclopedie medievale is unfortunately the costume designer bible for medieval, so some pieces were taken from there but even these were given a little more style by Emrys' efforts.
Colour options were beyond our control they wanted everything hammer finished and all rusted up, in what Dave the boss described as looking like a bloody pewter tankard.

Yes we may have pushed for a more authentic feel, we tried this on King Arthur and lost out on work because of it. You have a problem with authenticity fine, but with design and functionality no.

That said i also own a copy of timeline and it still depresses me, though also makes me laugh like hell!

Anyway deep calming breaths now, rant over!

Were was i again.

Been a long time since i saw flesh and blood, any opinions on that one?

Gwen and Jeff, make a film at least we'd be gauranteed beautiful visuals!

Matt

[ 07-13-2006: Message edited by: Matthias ]


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damien
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posted 07-13-2006 08:20 PM     Profile for damien     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I thought I would throw my hat into the ring on this one – though some of my choices are strictly out of period. Having worked in the film and theatre industry in wardrobe /props/ choreography and as a historical consultant I can assure you that anything that sneaks onto the screen that is historically accurate in many period productions is quite probably by accident!

I will give you the following example; during pre- production of the aborted Brad Pitt epic ‘The Fountain’ which was loosely set during Cortez’s conquest of the Aztecs. I started work on the production when I got a call at 10pm saying that after nearly 3 weeks of research they could find virtually nothing on Conquistador arms, armour and clothing- I was asked if I could make a presentation at a production meeting the next morning! After much discussion I was given 4 days during which time I put together a 90+ document with several hundred illustrations and all I had at my disposal was my library, the local state library (this is in Australia) and the internet, which as it was a few years ago didn’t have the wealth of information on it as it does now. Remember we are talking about a 100+ million dollar production here!

One of the chief wardrobe designers threw all of my research off the table and rejected all of the harness designs as ‘crap’. This was based on his insistence that the waist was too high and cuirass and faulds had to be waisted low on the hips as it would make “Brad look like a dork” (this was coming from a 20 something who had more of his Calvin Klein boxers above his jeans waistband than below) When I pointed out that this may present some difficulties for the Brad and co if they were required to walk, ride, bend sit etc he really went completely off into a full screaming tantrum!
My favourite moment however must be given to the assistant director who had heard somewhere about savage war dogs and despite our assurance that they were talking about the Spanish and their hunting mastiffs, he was insistent that they belonged to the Aztecs and I was to design “authentic” armour for the Aztec war dogs (as far as I know the only dog the Aztecs had was the Chihuahua which does conjure up some interesting visions!) During another meeting after I had tabled samples of aluminum mail with quotes another designer demanded to know what the “mesh stuff” that knights wore was and could we use any of it, this was 6 weeks into pre production! Remember these are the people who are helping the director achieve his ‘artistic vision’ of an authentic past!

The criteria I am applying to the following films is that does the depiction of the era convince me that I am looking at the real thing and how would I rate a group that looked like that. None of them are perfect but its better than watching First Knight!

Joan of Arc, 1948: Great harness clothing banners etc. Makes you wonder about modern designers!

The Advocate: great look and feel and a genuinely good movie

Kingdom of Heaven: Suffers from the usual problem of a designer trying to make the lead appeal to contemporary tastes by making hose look like flairs etc and the perceived need to divide characters into good guy – bad guy by visual cues. However the overall look was amazing and I wish the Crusades era groups I have seen were that well clothed and equipped! The directors cut is way better than the cinema release!

Henry V, 1944: Moving into the realm of art here! Not entirely accurate…. But ask yourself this, if your local SCA group was dressed and equipped like that would your opinion of them change?

Richard III, Pretty rough armour- but if you want to see how silk velvet drapes and shines it’s worth a look.

Potop (The Deluge) 1980?: Polish, set during the 1640’s totally mind blowing!!!!

Ognieum I Mieczem 1998 (With Fire and Sword): Prequel to The Deluge- not as mind blowing but close!

By the Sword Divided 1983?- Series set during the English Civil War a bit low budget but full living history quality !

Cellini, A Violent Life, 1990: A bit surreal at times but wow!

The Duelists: A few hundred years out of our era but every so often it is necessary to worship at the altar of Ridley Scott. ( and yes there are costume mistakes in it!)

The funny thing is I keep asking myself what would be the outcome if the same love of detail that was lavished on LOTR was given to historical subjects?

Damien
kolr


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Sir Lawrence d'Hastings
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posted 07-14-2006 05:09 AM     Profile for Sir Lawrence d'Hastings     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That's interesting to know! I doubt that Brad Pitt would really look worse in 16th c. Conquistador's armour than in the weird outfit he wore in Troy, but apparently the producers have opinions about which historical costume is cool and which isn't.
I sometimes get the idea that most filmmakers tend to think that the standard for cool clothing is the US marine's uniform, 'cause it's loose and you can take most of it off in the jungle. So tight hosen or doublets aren't what they think cool.

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Laurens Johanss Lewe, Deventer Burgher


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Matthias
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posted 07-14-2006 05:11 AM     Profile for Matthias     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by damien:
The criteria I am applying to the following films is that does the depiction of the era convince me that I am looking at the real thing and how would I rate a group that looked like that. None of them are perfect but its better than watching First Knight!

Damien
kolr


And whats wrong with v-neck breastplates and star-trek style costumes.

I know Terry English hated doing those v-necks.

Matt


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