I think, we all agree that a movie won´t ever save us a lot of reading, but- there are quite a few that are truly worth their money (if available). One of my favourites, from the perspective of a costume and armour aficionado, is

Shakespeare´s "Henry V", the 1946 version starring Laurence Olivier. Beats the 199o´s version by Kenneth Branagh in almost any respect.
Funnily, it begins inside the Globe Theatre, "London 1500" with the actors in costumes that look like someone around 1500 had tried to imagine what 15th century clothes might have looked like. With the travel to Calais, which is shown with model ships on a cellophane sea, the scenery shifts into the 15th century with GREAT costumes and armour(Bascinets! Banners! Horse Bardings! Medieval Saddles!), real horses and lots of people. Okay, the battle scenes are not as brutal and dirty as for example in "Braveheart", but they spent a lot of work and time on details like spurs, horse equipment, tents and the like.
One strange aspect is that one always has a feeling of watching a play because a lot of the backgrounds are purely scenery, painted after medieval illuminations like the book of hours of the Duke de Berry, including the strange perspectives of the latter. Watching this film made me feel like looking into a medieval manuscript and seeing the scenery come alive.
There´s only one drawback about this splendid film- since I first watched it, most other films seem quite dull...;o)

Regards

Ivo

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From the perspective of most accurate portrayal of period clothing and accoutemont I vote for the French version of Joan of Arc. Really, really, really good. It's a French film so it's very slow but there isn't much wrong with it.

I could bore you with the technical reasons why absolute historical accuracy isn't always a good thing in a movie intended for an uneducated modern audience, but allow me say that in my opinion some of the best and most effective "costumes" in recent movies were in Mel Gibson's "Hamlet", and Branaugh's "Henry V". Short on "accuracy" but high on "effect" which is the purpose of an entertainment, not education medium.

JMO!

Joan of Arc. Hmm.
There´s a 1990s (1993?) movie starring Sandrine Bonnaire (?), which is well-equipped. But to my mind the armour had a flimsy, aluminium-like appearance, and most of the costumes had that "inspired by"-flavour. Not a bad one, but not my favourite.

Another version of the topic is from 1959, starring Jean Seberg and directed by Otto Preminger. It is Based upon George Bernard Shaw´s play, the scenery mostly looks like cardboard and canvas, but the costumes are great. Pretty much influenced by the Duke de Berry´s book of hours, and the first dagged edges on movie costumes that gave me the feeling of looking at the real thing.

The latest version starring Milla Jovovic made me mad. After all the rumours about historically accurate armour and painstaking research I was a bit annoyed about these clumsy, spiked metal hunks that looked like a 15th century nightmare of Warhammer Ultra Marines. The only good thing about this flick was the fact, that most of the characters wore quilted arming doublets instead of the multi-laced black leather jackets familiar from other productions.
On the other hand- it was a great source of inspiration for my LARP actvities;o)

Last, but not least: The famous one starring Ingrid Bergman. The only real drawback about it are the heavnly "shalala"-choirs on the soundtrack and the constantly-suffering main role.

Regards

Ivo

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The Advocate? Do you mean that 15th century setting, playing in france, about a lawyer who in court has to defend a pig? If yes, I know it under the title "The Hour of the Pig". Great costumes.

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I am not sure whether this one has ever been published in English. It is a Polish production which is set around the battle of Tannenberg/Grunwald in 1425 (?), when the Polish and their allies defeated the Teutonic Order. It is based upon a book by Hendryk Synkiewicz who also wrote "Quo Vadis", and in German was given the title "The Crusaders"*.
Apart from details, like that the armour was probably made of plastic and the clothes of very, VERY colourful fabrics (plus the fact, that the movie dates from the 1950s and therefore was made in "Technikowskykolor"), the styles of armour and clothing to me seemed pretty close to the original.

Regards

Ivo

*In Poland the Knights of the Teutonic Orders still are called by the polish equivalent for "Crusaders", which name also serves as a nickname for the inhabitants of towns like Thorn (now in Poland, Torùn in Polish) that were founded by the Order. As far as I know, "Crusaders" is either the name or nickname of a football club in the city of Thorn.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ivo:

The Advocate? Do you mean that 15th century setting, playing in france, about a lawyer who in court has to defend a pig? If yes, I know it under the title "The Hour of the Pig". Great costumes.

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oooo...Colin Firth in 15th century getup....or not.....

fun movie indeed, and great costumes for the guys. I dont remember the gals costumes very well, which suggests that they didnt do much with them (which is often the case when the star is male...Kenneth Branaughs HenryV was the same way)

-AM

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Neb (hello all: first post...)

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[ 09-01-2004: Message edited by: Martin ]

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[ 09-01-2004: Message edited by: Martin ]

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I've been looking and thus far all I can find is just a movie site that gives details on the film but haven't been able to find it on VHS or DVD.

Í skugga hrafnsins(1988)is also known by these names:

• In the Shadow of the Raven (1990) (USA)
  
• Korpens skugga (1988)
  
• Ravnens skygge (1988) (Norway)
  
• Shadow of the Raven, The (1988)
  

You might want to try writing to this address.

Findforme@au-cinema.com

Au-cinema specializes in finding foreign films.

Hope this helps,

Jenn

(edited for tag typo)

[ 06-15-2004: Message edited by: Fire Stryker ]

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HA-HA jk

warlord, that wasnt too bad on the armour scale. what about like 300 spartans, or other old movies like that?

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La Reine Margot (Queen Margot)(1994) is a very, very well done movie about the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre. Weapons and armour are surprising accurate (perhaps off by ten years, but fashion seemed to change faster in the 16c. than it does today!) Costumes for the characters are theatrical, but the extras are spot on (movie paradox?) In addition, the characters feel real, not like modern stereotypes.

Also The Return of Martin Guerre (?) based on the microhistory by historian Natalie Zemon Davis and starring Gerrard Depardeu is a very very good look at peasants life circa 1550.

I also hear the film New World, with Collin Ferrel of all people, is supposed to be very good on armour/costume, but I haven't seen it.

Also, remembering back to childhood, there was an A&E special of Ivanhoe, with a pretty decent cast. I thought the costumes/armour was amazing at the time. I can't attest to it now, I haven't seen it since I was 14. Good luck getting a hold of it, my VHS set cost $80.

Also watch the Duellists, its just an amazing story and movie, great character and detail that anyone who appreciates history can admire.

Over all, I'd say search out French films, they are great about historical detail (actually they seem to pay more attention to real life in general, even modern). I'll search for some medieval examples...

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It starts not in the 14th century though, but in the 12th, during the reign of Louis VIII I think, during the wars between him and Henry II over Aquitaine.

Another movie in which they showed something like braies and chausses, but only on one person, was "Timeline" about a team of archaeologists who find a way to get into a castle in France in the Hundred Years' War. The armour is acceptable, the clothing is horrible. Also, the fact that the two parties are in nice uniform colour is a bit annoying (red for English, blue for French). And the plot is really weird, but there is some nice action which is not too unplausible.

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Diu Minnezît
Reconstruction of textiles, armour and daily life
1250,1350,1475
Nuremberg and Paris
http://www.diu-minnezit.de

IG Meisterhauw
Reconstruction of late medieval and early renaissance fencing techniques
http://www.meisterhauw.de

A bit sexy so don't be shocked, and the music (aside from the medieval bits which are wonderful) is very dated and awful.

Hmm. thanks a bunch wolf, while i agree it was definitely out of period it didn't suck, for my sins i worked on that armour, i don't know why the hell they didn't go fourteenth century would've looked a damn site better, ah well.
However, all the armour articulated exactly as it should have done, poleyns, gauntlets etc... encyclopedie medievale is unfortunately the costume designer bible for medieval, so some pieces were taken from there but even these were given a little more style by Emrys' efforts.
Colour options were beyond our control they wanted everything hammer finished and all rusted up, in what Dave the boss described as looking like a bloody pewter tankard.

Yes we may have pushed for a more authentic feel, we tried this on King Arthur and lost out on work because of it. You have a problem with authenticity fine, but with design and functionality no.

That said i also own a copy of timeline and it still depresses me, though also makes me laugh like hell!

Anyway deep calming breaths now, rant over!

Were was i again.

Been a long time since i saw flesh and blood, any opinions on that one?

Gwen and Jeff, make a film at least we'd be gauranteed beautiful visuals!

Matt

I will give you the following example; during pre- production of the aborted Brad Pitt epic ‘The Fountain’ which was loosely set during Cortez’s conquest of the Aztecs. I started work on the production when I got a call at 10pm saying that after nearly 3 weeks of research they could find virtually nothing on Conquistador arms, armour and clothing- I was asked if I could make a presentation at a production meeting the next morning! After much discussion I was given 4 days during which time I put together a 90+ document with several hundred illustrations and all I had at my disposal was my library, the local state library (this is in Australia) and the internet, which as it was a few years ago didn’t have the wealth of information on it as it does now. Remember we are talking about a 100+ million dollar production here!

One of the chief wardrobe designers threw all of my research off the table and rejected all of the harness designs as ‘crap’. This was based on his insistence that the waist was too high and cuirass and faulds had to be waisted low on the hips as it would make “Brad look like a dork” (this was coming from a 20 something who had more of his Calvin Klein boxers above his jeans waistband than below) When I pointed out that this may present some difficulties for the Brad and co if they were required to walk, ride, bend sit etc he really went completely off into a full screaming tantrum!
My favourite moment however must be given to the assistant director who had heard somewhere about savage war dogs and despite our assurance that they were talking about the Spanish and their hunting mastiffs, he was insistent that they belonged to the Aztecs and I was to design “authentic” armour for the Aztec war dogs (as far as I know the only dog the Aztecs had was the Chihuahua which does conjure up some interesting visions!) During another meeting after I had tabled samples of aluminum mail with quotes another designer demanded to know what the “mesh stuff” that knights wore was and could we use any of it, this was 6 weeks into pre production! Remember these are the people who are helping the director achieve his ‘artistic vision’ of an authentic past!

The criteria I am applying to the following films is that does the depiction of the era convince me that I am looking at the real thing and how would I rate a group that looked like that. None of them are perfect but its better than watching First Knight!

Joan of Arc, 1948: Great harness clothing banners etc. Makes you wonder about modern designers!

The Advocate: great look and feel and a genuinely good movie

Kingdom of Heaven: Suffers from the usual problem of a designer trying to make the lead appeal to contemporary tastes by making hose look like flairs etc and the perceived need to divide characters into good guy – bad guy by visual cues. However the overall look was amazing and I wish the Crusades era groups I have seen were that well clothed and equipped! The directors cut is way better than the cinema release!

Henry V, 1944: Moving into the realm of art here! Not entirely accurate…. But ask yourself this, if your local SCA group was dressed and equipped like that would your opinion of them change?

Richard III, Pretty rough armour- but if you want to see how silk velvet drapes and shines it’s worth a look.

Potop (The Deluge) 1980?: Polish, set during the 1640’s totally mind blowing!!!!

Ognieum I Mieczem 1998 (With Fire and Sword): Prequel to The Deluge- not as mind blowing but close!

By the Sword Divided 1983?- Series set during the English Civil War a bit low budget but full living history quality !

Cellini, A Violent Life, 1990: A bit surreal at times but wow!

The Duelists: A few hundred years out of our era but every so often it is necessary to worship at the altar of Ridley Scott. ( and yes there are costume mistakes in it!)

The funny thing is I keep asking myself what would be the outcome if the same love of detail that was lavished on LOTR was given to historical subjects?

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quote:

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Originally posted by damien:
The criteria I am applying to the following films is that does the depiction of the era convince me that I am looking at the real thing and how would I rate a group that looked like that. None of them are perfect but its better than watching First Knight!

Damien
kolr

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And whats wrong with v-neck breastplates and star-trek style costumes.

I know Terry English hated doing those v-necks.