Is there any good sources that list the contingents raised by various town militias in the Holy Roman Empire - more specifically, in Southern Germany, in the 1470's and 1480's?

Also, any ideas regarding colours worn as liveries for various towns?

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Note: this is not for assuming of arms of a town, but rather the use of colors in the arms for liveries.

[ 06-17-2008: Message edited by: Fire Stryker ]

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In which context Do you search for contingents from town militias? As for the battle of neuss, you may find some information here: http://www.webgrafiken.de/reichsaufgebot.de/index.php?lid=1&cid=1

As for the liveries, every twon had it's own regulations, so you cannot simply take up modern coat of arms.
In fact I hardly have any evidences for real liveries. Only for cloth or single garments being part of the payment. This also really depends on the situation; in a defensive situation a citizen simply would wear his most durable clothes.

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Diu Minnezît
Reconstruction of textiles, armour and daily life
1250,1350,1475
Nuremberg and Paris
http://www.diu-minnezit.de

IG Meisterhauw
Reconstruction of late medieval and early renaissance fencing techniques
http://www.meisterhauw.de

quote:

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Originally posted by jboerner:
In which context Do you search for contingents from town militias?

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Jens-

Thanks for the link. It lead to a lot more links, most of which, I was wholly unaware of.

The context of Bob's question is this - he's doing a bang-up job (Jenn, too!) of helping me zero in on establishing a LH group here in Wisconsin. It has been a long-time wish, though I was unsure of when (in history), where (in Europe), what (a campaigning army, a standing household, militia...) or how until recently. My primary interest is in this region and in this time frame.

At this point, Nuremberg appears to be the strong front-runner. To that end, any documentation or resources regarding the city forces, regional and city history, persons of note of the day - anything would be most helpful. Of equal interest would be information on the military structure of any other city that would shed further light on the workings in Nuremberg.

I realize that a lot of these texts and sources will be in German. My commitment to this project is such that I am willing to give an honest effort to becoming fluent at least in reading German, if not also speaking it.

Cheers!

What we are looking for is (I think), the documentation of contingents, from Nuremburg, for various expeditions dating from the Siege of Neuss, to, say, 20 years later.

From my reading, a few towns had liveried contingents (Strassbourg, for one, with contingents from that town wearing white and red parti coloured livery). It is my understanding, that most such 'liveries', or colours worn to show a political allegience, in the Holy Roman Empire, from the late 14th century through the 15th century, was in the form of hoods of various colours - I know, for instance, Frankfurt issued red and brown cloth for hoods at one point.

Any regulations concerning arms and armour required to be maintained by the citizens of Nuremburg as individual households would be very useful.

[ 06-19-2008: Message edited by: chef de chambre ]

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As we are actually are from nuremberg (or mroe precise: from erlangen, which is 20km from there) and trying to reconstruct german citizens in the 1470s, you might want to take a look at our homepage, and if you had not yet known the links on the "reichsaufgebot" page (which will be overhauled in teh second half of this year) you especially might want to look into our links.

Here: http://www.diu-minnezit.de/buecher.php you can distinct the search also only displaying literature about nuremberg, though I had not yet the time to add all resources we have on it.
Also interesting might be http://www.nuernberg-im-mittelalter.de , I small page I run to give information on people starting a display in this region.
Especially the links and organisations might be interesting for you. I would strongly encourage you to take a trip to germany, and to visit nuremberg, the castle and the Germanisches Nationalmuseum

You might also want to take up contact to http://www.aufgebot1474.de who have more military focus.

Up to now, I know of now real documentation that proves any uniform or livery worn by troups from nuremberg, apart from woolen cloth in white and red as part of the payment, with red and white being the colours of _all_ "Freie Reichsstädte".

The regulations about armour were changing over the time and depend on the amount of money earned- or the amount of salt stored in the household, as a sign for the wealth of the household.

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Diu Minnezît
Reconstruction of textiles, armour and daily life
1250,1350,1475
Nuremberg and Paris
http://www.diu-minnezit.de

IG Meisterhauw
Reconstruction of late medieval and early renaissance fencing techniques
http://www.meisterhauw.de

Your post has given us a lot to look in to, as well as avenues to pursue to find more sources. It's always an adventure.

Of course, the best suggestion you made was to come to visit. I hope to make that happen someday.

Certainly, there is a lot to discuss, but for now, I'll go and learn what I can.

Danke sehr!

quote:

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Originally posted by jboerner:
Hi Aaron,

As we are actually are from nuremberg (or mroe precise: from erlangen, which is 20km from there) and trying to reconstruct german citizens in the 1470s, you might want to take a look at our homepage, and if you had not yet known the links on the "reichsaufgebot" page (which will be overhauled in teh second half of this year) you especially might want to look into our links.

Here: http://www.diu-minnezit.de/buecher.php you can distinct the search also only displaying literature about nuremberg, though I had not yet the time to add all resources we have on it.
Also interesting might be http://www.nuernberg-im-mittelalter.de , I small page I run to give information on people starting a display in this region.
Especially the links and organisations might be interesting for you. I would strongly encourage you to take a trip to germany, and to visit nuremberg, the castle and the Germanisches Nationalmuseum

You might also want to take up contact to http://www.aufgebot1474.de who have more military focus.

Up to now, I know of now real documentation that proves any uniform or livery worn by troups from nuremberg, apart from woolen cloth in white and red as part of the payment, with red and white being the colours of _all_ "Freie Reichsstädte".

The regulations about armour were changing over the time and depend on the amount of money earned- or the amount of salt stored in the household, as a sign for the wealth of the household.

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Hi jboerner.

Thanks very much for the links!

I understand what you are saying regarding not having indisputable proof regarding 'uniform' wear by contingents - however,

Is the cloth in part-payment being issued prior to or after the campaign it is issued in payment for? If it is issued prior, with intent for it to be made up into clothes, that would be a strong argument for at least a preponderance of white and red parti-coloured soldiers being seen. Now, it is likely being made up to the fancy of the individual citizen recieving the cloth, so there would be nothing resembling a 'uniform', but surely it argues for the contingents being clad in white, red, or white and red doublets, gowns, hose, or hoods, at least in part, or various combination?

As I recollect, the Frankfurt contingent Gerry Embleton has quoted in one of his books, spoecifically issued brown and red cloth to the men, to be made up into hoods. Now, I have not seen the original document, and Germany is not my area of study or interest, so I cannot state that this was so, and give you a manuscript number the document was from, but Gerry is usually a pretty reliable source. Better, however, to go and look at the original document.

I think it is important to go and look at the original documents, instead of relying on other people to have done so for me, to get as pure infoprmation as one can from the original source, instead of relying on others to filter the information for us. Hence, our askijng our German friends as to where to look.

My thanks to you for having given us a good place to begin.

[ 06-21-2008: Message edited by: chef de chambre ]

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