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Author Topic: mark of Government issue broad head on the arrow bag
Knechte de Freiheit
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posted 03-30-2008 09:30 AM     Profile for Knechte de Freiheit     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I can't seem to find any 15c. English period illustrations with the use of the mark of Government issue broad head on the arrow bag.
There's quite a lot of the modern illustrators like Gerry Embleton including it the in their illustrations.
I just would like to know where they are getting their information from are there any period illustrations of the Broad arrow marks?
I'm under the impression that it was started as a Government property in the late 17th Century by Henry,Viscount Sidney,Earl of Romney who was Master of the Ordinance 1693-1702 as the Broad arrow was the Sidney family Livery badge.

[ 03-30-2008: Message edited by: Knechte de Freiheit ]


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Fire Stryker
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posted 04-03-2008 09:54 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Miles,

The broad arrow has been used by the "government" for centuries, marking anything from ship masts to prisoners' jumpers.

I found this citation from the Longley Old Hall web site.

"Barrel staves found under plaster some years ago in the kitchen chamber have been identified as beech and pine. The former, with antiquated numbers scratched onto them, may be medieval. One pine stave has a "broad arrow" mark, similar to those found on the Mary Rose and may indicate Crown property."

Source: http://www.longleyoldhall.co.uk/latest_news.htm

The Dukes of Burgundy used the "fire steel" and sparks on their government equipment that was handed out to troops.

On the Goldiproductions Boer War & WWI Bugles,web page they have this bit of info.

"The British Military Broad Arrow

The symbol of the broad arrow, or "mark", has been used to identify crown property since as early as the rule of Richard II (1367-1400)."

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Knechte de Freiheit
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posted 04-03-2008 04:50 PM     Profile for Knechte de Freiheit     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks Jenn

It looks the BA mark was 1st used to mark wine. http://www.invincible1758.co.uk/broad_arrow_page.htm
'THE BROAD ARROW MARK'
The 'Broad Arrow', the Government property mark, originates from 1330, viz:
An illustration of a document dated 1330 issued by Richard de la Pole, the Kings Butler, for the purpose of wine and bearing his seal. This shows that in order to make sure that ownership could be readily established as Kings property, he marked each item with an arrow from his own coat of Arms. The date on this document was 1330! This pre-dated all of the speculative advice given by many historians.

I still have had no luck with any period illustrations of the Broad arrow marks being used to mark 15c arrow bags in any ordinance poof mark role till after late 17th c.

Miles


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Fire Stryker
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posted 04-07-2008 08:33 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't think you "see" it in Burgundian images, but I believe it's cited in the documentation, Bob can probably cite it. I think you're going to have to go through any English image sources to see if you can find it. Have you done a tour through the British Library?

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Knechte de Freiheit
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posted 04-07-2008 05:16 PM     Profile for Knechte de Freiheit     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I have been looking through the British Library no luck.
But now that I'm oversea's on Saipan were the web slow down alot now.

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