While I haven't attended a LH version of an equestrian event, I have some thoughts that I think are worth considering. Some are basic guidelines, others are rules that have come from assisting in running horse shows (and some of the really stupid things that have happened during them)!

I agree that LH should not follow as more rule mongers, however, these days, when we bring our 4 hoofed companions, anything can happen.

Much of this came from the SCA Equestrian Handbook. While it's been written for the masses and by liability lawyers, it's well worth a look.

In retrospect of editing this, this really ought to be broken into two sections. First is equine transportation and site handling. The second should be rider qualifications (of some sort) and equine activity (ie combat). But here's something to ponder:

Equine Activity Regulations:
Did you know that your state (in the US) probably has activity and liability regulations and laws regarding the use of and demonstrations with equines? They're definately worth a look. And I'd check with your local barn to see if they're aware of this and in compliance. Sometimes this includes simple but obvious postings.
http://www.law.utexas.edu/dawson/equine/equ_menu.htm

Equestrian Participant Regulations:
Some of these are questions that I'd like to hear from others on. A few I've snitched from the SCA. Their rules are generally, quite strict. Here are a few I think are worth noting:

Equestrians are not permitted to use ..... that affect judgment, coordination, etc. in the equestrian area.
a) Equestrians are not permitted to participate in Equestrian Activities when under the influence of the aforementioned items.
b) Riders are encouraged to conduct themselves in a courteous manner particularly around pedestrians.
c) Riders are expected to maintain a chivalrous demeanor, especially as the word chivalry comes from the root word chevalier, which is French for rider.

WHAT ABOUT LIABILITY WAIVERS? ARE THEY EVEN WORTH DOING? WHAT DO GROUND TROOPS DO AT THEIR EVENTS??? ie Red Company?

I'M NOT SURE ABOUT WHAT CONDITIONS SHOULD BE MADE ON THE NEXT ONE:
Equestrians are not permitted to ride through encampments.........(Goes on to say use roads only.) I don't think this is realistic or authentic. However, perhaps some concern should be made so that a horse doesn't go where it isn't appropriate. Such as through the food/cooking area (YUM! WHAT CAN I FIND?) Perhaps the best consideration or statement ought to say something like "The rider must be in control of his/her mount at ALL times."

Novices? should have foot attendants... Either you can control your horse or you can't... Should a "list" area be designated instead at events?

Footwear issues: Closed-toed only for all immediate area participants?

MOUNTED COMBAT
The SCA has strong restrictions on use of weapons including types and lack of mounted combat. Obviously LH is the opposite. HOWEVER, something might want to be said for not (intentionally) striking the horse. IE: Claymore to the equine knees. That gets expensive and generally pisses off the owner...

GENERAL HORSE REGS
Here are some regs directly copied from the SCA Equestrian Handbook

1 Owners are ultimately responsible for:
a. The actions and well-being of the horses.
b. The maintenance and condition of the tack and equipment they use.

2 All horse owners must retain (have on them) a set of the appropriate transport papers required by their state of destination and must present them to the ... of the event upon request.
Some states only need a 6 month negative coggins. Others have required this new equine passport system which is prevalent in the south particularly Florida to Texas. I've heard (particularly down south) of roadblocks that also inspect such papers and have refused the person to enter the state. Check your state. Check you frequent state. If you are not sure, I'd ask a local, big showing barn/farm and see what they do.
I'd propose that each event must have a designated "Equestrian Marshall In Charge - (SCA name)". They or a designate would check in and ok an outside horse on site. And that horses are not allowed to be unloaded until they are ok'd.

3 No horse may be left unattended. Minimal supervision by personnel designated as "horse monitors" may include but is not limited to: visual inspection at hourly intervals or horses continually monitored by sight or sound within the same camping area. ....
Just as a note: the SCA does not allow horses to be left alone in trailers. God forbid we leave one alone in a tent! I'm curious as to what others would do such as on a secured hitching line.

4. A horse must be securely restrained by a means such as, but not limited to: stable, pen, or by trailer tie and hitching post. Use of barbed-wire enclosures to restrain a horse is prohibited.

The SCA has rules on renting horses. I don't think that LH needs to get into that BUT it does bring up the point that maybe a horse needs to prove itself (an authorization of some sort) that it can deal with clanking armour, weird people running around strange clothing swinging objects that might hurt "me", or sounds of "gear grinding" crossbow nuts as they are loosed.

5. Horse welfare. I don't think we really need anything although the SCA thought so. It's living history. We could have public stocks or a flogging if needed...

6. Vet on Call. Because we are exposing our horses to risks, I think part of a standard guideline would include having or notifying a good, local vet to be on call for the event. Just to let the vet know what's going on and where. If you have a vet or vet tech in your group, so much the better!

7. Biters & Kickers. Both modern and SCA regs require a red ribbon on the halter or/and on the tail. Ok authenticity mongers. What do you propose???

8. Things like blankets, horse grooming items, etc. Authentic pieces would be nice! What do you propose to do for those building an equine kit? A brush you can make, stain or hide. What about other tools?

Enough from me!!! OK readers, tear it apart, ask me questions, throw things...

If there are to be any field trials (qualifiers), how, by whom and for what?

And that stupid liability thing and how are things like waivers, etc. going to be dealt with. How are they done now???

We are not idiots, and most reenactors understand the potential for injury inherent in the activities.

Anyone who participates in equestrian reenactment would be wise to carry liability insurance. Our group has it and it was cheap.

I would like to think that anyone who brings a horse to a reenactment understands the inherent dangers and risks to the horse, themselves and the people around them. I would also like to believe that they understand the responsibilities and obligations of horse ownership and that we should not have to legislate this as a reenactment affiliation.

Anybody who brings a horse to a reenactment is almost certainly not a novice, and anyone who plans to use their horse for martial activities better damned well have worked themself and their horse into the task.

I really have only two thoughts for rules:

1. Your kit should be historically appropriate.

2. Don't be stupid.

Anyone who violates the above or who breaks the basic rules of common sense should be told to "go home."

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Cheers,

I am not advocating a 897 page document of do's and don'ts, but my years in the "customer service" field of computer technical support tell me that there are certain "truths" that must be considered. First and foremost among them is never assume anything. People can and will do stupid things and some guidelines should be established because under truth number two, people do not like taking responsibility for their own actions and will gladly sue if given the opportunity. Ejecting someone after an accident has happened is a moot point.

Liability Insurance is fine, but an event should have some semblance of organization/guidelines so that participants know at least on the most basic level what they need to do in order to participate with their equine buddy. This could be a simple as someone who is the designated event coordinator sending a form to those who wish to participate, what is involved for the host state: Historical tack and grooming equipment, state regulations for horses coming from out of state like Coggins papers or others if required, etc... I think things like thundering through the encampment is unnecessary unless it is part of a staged event. You get the idea.

The Medieval Horse Guild is not as restrictive as the SCA, but they do have a method for "qualifying" horses and riders for certain types of participation. This falls under the safety aspect. If it is found that a horse is a spook risk or the rider cannot show a high level of control over their mount, they don't participate in battle type activities, but may be perfectly suited for something else. I certainly don't think we should adopt rules and regulations that border on Olympic competition or the eventing circuit, but we should have some "common sense" guidelines in place.

People may not be novices to the world of horsemanship, but you will run into people who are novices at a re-enactment. We may know the competency level in our groups, but we cannot vouch for levels in others we do not know. Just being mindful of the common good.

Just some thoughts...

Unfortunately, 99% of the population does not understand or know how to act around our equine companions. (The same can often be said about modern transportation...) My intention was to propose and identify potential problems that I've seen go wrong as well as in the best interest of the entire encampment and for the safety of all.

This is a process that the MHG went through and I know it serves them well. It was also developed since the MHG is an off-shoot/part of the Markland Militia who regularly portrays war and sieges (many of whom are not familiar around horses).

What I proposed is common sense. Something that was often, unfortunately occasionally lacking even on the event circuits.

HERE'S A QUESTION TO PONDER:

For those that know me, one of my jobs is working as an officer in the fire service where we have lots and lots of rules. When something (bad) happens, the first questions asked (after the welfare of the injured) are "Was the person following the guidelines?" QUESTION: Is this something (legal or otherwise) that would be necessary for LH demonstrations particularly when the public is invited? Without any guidelines, I see a strong liability risk. A suggestion I offer that has come from such standards, CALL THEM GUIDELINES NOT REGULATIONS. Reason: Guidelines can be deviated from with just cause. Regulations that are deviated are grounds for problems...

Just my point of view from someone who hates incident paperwork...

FvH

To the best of my knowledge, The Red Company is the ONLY medieval group in the US who brings horses to medieval events and uses them in an historically correct manner i.e. they are an intrinsic part of the camp. They are not banished from camp, made to wear ribbons or otherwise encumbered with absurd modern rules. My reaction to the ribbon rule is that the ribbon would tell everyone in the camp that the horse kicks- but they probably already know that. The general public would be in just as much danger because they wouldn't know what the ribbon meant. They might think it a decoration, or a prize- why should they know it meant the horse was dangerous??

Bringing a horse to a public event of ANY type is a responsibility, medieval or not. If a owner doen't know how to handle his horse in a public situation without being told, or if the horse is dangerous, that horse does not belong at an ARMET event. Period.

Not everyone in our camp is a horse person. Some are city people who had to be taught which end of the horse poops. However, EVERYONE in our camp has been taught the basic rules of being around horses, and what to do in an emergency. We can't assume that if a horse breaks free that only the horse people can handle the situation - whoever is there at the time has to be able to deal with it. This to us is common sense.

Common sense is putting the horses close to the camp, that way there's always someone close by to monitor them. If the public gets too close, someone can always ask them to stay back, answer questions, etc.

Making the sponsor responsible for researching and having state guidelines available for each state is a fine idea. Having to include "all grooming equipment must be historically accurate" in the guidelines seems to fall under the "spirit of doing things right". FYI- Not all of our grooming equipment is historically accurate. We keep it in a covered basket and try not to use anything egregious when the public is around.

Anyone who doesn't have enough of their own common sense to know that "thundering through the encampment" on a horse is stupid without being told has no place at an ARMET event in the first place. If an owner is stupid, making a bunch of rules won't solve the problem.

We live in a small horse town where people literally ride their horses down main street and take them through the drive through at the fast food restaurants. There is a parade every couple of months, and a rodeo twice a year. There was an international 3-day event here that drew horses and riders from all over the world. We are accustomed to being around horses and horse people. That having been said, it makes the difference between people who know horses and those who do not very clear to us. Our experience with the general public in these situations is that they are somewhat afraid/in awe of horses, and if they don't know how to act around them, they follow the directions of whoever is giving them as far as conduct around the horses. If we say "stand back" they stand back. If we say "Don't walk behind the horse" they don't. They figure they are our horses and we know what's best. This requires the appropriate amount of responsible vigilance on the part of the horse owner, but not a lot of rules.

This looks like it's going down the road of "qualifying" riders before events, and signing "guideline agreements", and that's not what ARMET is for. "Common sense" can't be legislated in this or any other case, and it can't be replaced by cumbersome rules.

Gwen

Also, all large scale ACW events like Gettysburg require all participants to register AND sign a waiver (you cannot legislate common sense, but on the same token, stupidity happens). Even most smaller scale events that have 100 or slightly more usually do the same.

What I think we are trying to propose is a page or two that gives folks who want to participate with ARMET groups, an idea of what's expected. We aren't talking about the Ten Commandments here. Okay, you don't have to have a 15th c curry comb, it was more conversational thought process oriented than saying "this is how it's going to be", but you might have something that suggests how to disguise an obviously Modern saddle.

quote:

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Your kit should be historically appropriate.

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We should at least give potential participants an idea of what's considered "historically appropriate". This is no different than the "spirit of doing it right" when telling people what they should have in their 15th c. human kit. Obviously hot pink leg wraps and tail wraps are not appropriate.

Moving on to safety regarding horse habits.

It may be an assumption within ones own camp that all participants are aware of a "kicker or biter", but if you are in a large group of people/mixed camps at an event, the members of the other camps may not be and I don't think relying on "word of mouth" is a good idea.

Here is my suggestion if you wanted to avoid the modern look. Tie the horses tail in a medieval style with a red ribbon/piece of cloth as depicted in many of the illustrations from the time or twine a specific plant in the tail or forelock just behind the ears (a la A. Durer). Remember the guidelines are for multiple group participation and not meant to address the public or things we already know within our own groups. A owner may know that their horse is a kicker or biter, but if it is the only horse they have and they want to participate, they are going to bring it to an event "you can't legislate common sense".

Perhaps this should go in the event planners guidelines if we do "registration" for events. Sample questions could be:

What is your impression? (mounted/foot)
Are you bringing a horse? (yes/no)
Name:
Does the horse have any habits that other participants should be aware of? (nips, kicks, bites, doesn't like dogs ...etc...)

When the event is set up, the event coordiator or assistant ( ) who welcomes participants can hand out a ribbon or what-have-you with instructions on placement. At that time, they can also verify Coggins documentation.

If special considerations are necessary concerning the public, then make sure an event flyer is handed out that may tell them to stay back or what the bound tail on a horse means, but is also informative in the way of what might be going on in the way of public displays or participation events.

I fully expect the horses to be in camp and not isolated, so they can be watched and the public addressed if need be. Ours are too young at the moment, but we hope to have them at least meeting the public in the Summer of 2001 as well as participating with other 15th c groups on the East coast.

Maybe to avoid things getting overly cumbersome, we could have an event reception. At this reception, some basic guidelines could be imparted to the groups by the event coordinator. An event QA session followed by a wine and cheese party or medieval potluck or breakfast to get everyone in the spirit for the weekend.

quote:

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Rules and Regs from the Antietam site: Special Rules and Guidelines for Mounted Cavalry

Health Records: A current EIA Test (Coggins) is required for each animal per state and event regulations. You will be checked at registration before entering the site. Current Flu, Rhino, and Tetanus vaccinations are highly recommended for each animal.

Saddles: The following are acceptable: 1. 1859 McClellan, 1859 quarter straps and girth; 2. Grimsely; 3. Jennifer; 4. Texas "Jennifer"; 5. 1833 Dragoon Style; 6. Ringgold; and 7. Hopes (correct reproduction or reworked; no modern western saddles). These are all acceptable. Officers' saddles must be honest reproductions.

Saddle Furniture: The following are acceptable: 1. Period Stirrups (no 1904 iron stirrups); 2) Valice, 1859 saddlebags, true copy CS saddlebags; 3. Crupper; 4. Period breaststraps; 5. Gray, red or dragoon saddle blankets. Any issue blanket of the periodno modern Indian saddle blankets, yellow-trimmed angled Indian War blankets, or olive drab blankets; 6. Pommel holsters of the period.

Headstall/Halter: Bring 3- or 5- buckle cavalry or artillery patterns of the period (no modern western bridles). Have a leather halter, Cavalry Model 1859, and leather or rope lead. Link straps are required for cavalry to fight dismounted. No modern bits or nickel-plated/chrome bits will be tolerated.

Horses: Bays, blacks, chestnuts or sorrels, grays, buckskins, true roans, palominos, and gruellas will be accepted. No appaloosas, paints, or pintos, unless they can pass as one of the acceptable breeds listed above or unless approved by the host.

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I think they meant colors not breeds.

Here is the set from a Confederate Cav unit:

quote:

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7th Tennessee Cavalry-Company D
Horses:

Horses may be of the following breeds- Grade, Quarter horse, Saddlebred, Morgan, Thoroughbred or Arabian. Walking or Racking horses are accepted if they can perform the cavalry gaits. No paints, pintos, palominos or appaloosas shall be used. Horses manes shall be left long. Current Coggins test and vaccinations are necessary for the protection of all horses and are required by most event host. Each trooper shall submit a current Coggins to the unit Commander by March 15 of each year. The ranking member present may dismiss poorly conditioned, sick or unruly horses. This reflects on the unit's appearance as a whole!

Horse Equipment:

The pre-war Hope, Jennifer, Ringgold, Grimsley, Cambell, 1859 rawhide covered Union McClellan or russet Confederate McClellan. No
1874, 1904, or 1928 riggings on McClellans. No other post-war saddles. Wooden stirrups or period iron stirrups are correct. 1859 McClellans should be used for Union impression. Halters should be period civilian, Confederate, or 1859 Union issue with iron hardware, link straps and lead straps. Headstalls and bits should be pre-1865 Confederate, civilian or Union issue. No chrome hardware. Saddle blankets shall be union issue blue, gray, brown or red wool. Spanish moss blankets have been documented for Confederate service if you can find one. Saddlebags must be Union or Confederate issue or period civilian. Valises, cruppers, martingales or pommel holsters are optional, but the latter two were seldom used by the 7th.

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The two examples given are event specific and group specific. I have not checked the Gettysburg requirements, but I think these guidelines represent a page each on a website. They are far more strict than what I think we would propose, but folks from other groups who might be interested in helping form ARMET need to voice their opinions.

1. Novices should have foot attendants- sorry if you need leading you have no place on a horse in a combat (even mock) situation IMHO

2. Fencing we use electric, not authentic I guess but if you got the type that is not so visible looking you would probably do OK, the rope type is pretty good & looks rope like

3. Kicker & biters, have no place whatsoever in combat & need training out of it. Biters as a temporary measure can have a flash or similar fitted. Kicking is totally mad to have in a close contact situation I saw a horse killed by a kick to the head last year, it totally caved in the poor things head (this was NOT a habitual kicker) We count ourselves lucky it wasn’t a persons head believe me. PLEASE PLEASE do not allow kickers in close contact situations.

4. Brushes etc, all the older ones I’ve see look much like our modern ones if you leave the purple set at home anyway

5. Leg protection, OK I know it isn’t authentic, letting your horse die of sores if you are playing Napoleonic is, but I don’t intend to do that ! Leg protection is very important for you horse, he doesn’t get a choice so take care of him please !! I use bandages over the boots to the colour of the legs.

6. Saddles etc- I feel it is more important to have a well fitting safe tack that look 100% authentic, this is coming from a person who collects odd saddles :0). An English saddle with built ups in paper mache or a stuffed overblanket works well. We use a spanish saddle at the moment for medieval, but soon I plan to make something else. Fact is there are few saddle surviving so exact replicas are about impossible. I make all my own bridles & have loads of harness trapping & pendants etc cast from originals should anyone want any !

7. Training Don’t know why I’ve left this until last and it is probably the most important. I don’t think you should take any horse into combat unless it is basically well trained. Then on top of that you have got it used to what it will have to face eg gun fire, banging shield, barging etc. I can give you more on hoe I train our bunch if you like but I don’t want to ramble on & bore you all !!

Well I hope these thoughts are of interest and some help

Mel

Welcome to the board! No offense taken at all. Your input is most welcome and part of what this is about; sharing experiences and offering advice. It is interesting to get the UK POV.

I agree that there need not be the abundance of rules that the SCA has. Most of that is to help cover the loaning of horses. (let me tell you how often I hauled my horse so others could ride..) I would imagine that won't happen in this organization as much, thus no need to think of novice folks on horses etc. What I would recommend, or really encourage what has already been stated is to have a person in charge of the events equestrian activities. This person should be qualified to judge if horse/rider are acting unsafe, especially in battle scenarios. Also the contact person for info, and for making sure horses coming to the event have paperwork.

One thing that was debated in the SCA was having "horse authorizations" where we would put the horse through its paces to determine a rank for it to see what activities/skill level of rider it was suited for. This idea was dropped due to excessive paperwork it would cause, but the idea is good. Especially for a smaller group it would be easier to become accustomed to what horses were suitable for what situation.

Anyway, enough for now. I look forward to more conversation, and will be happy to help provide any insights/information from my 8 years of activity.

Curious, cause in my mind it would make a difference regarding structure of rules or non-rules.

Also, I was surprised to see that Apps and Paints aren't allowed in Civil War stuff. Anyone know why, other than what breed predominance was at the time? (I feel this is a bit unfair myself. I am lucky enough to own a horse, and didn't have lots of money to buy my dream horse..got mine for barter, and he is an App, which wouldn't have been my first choice but I am not picky and he is a fabulous mount and horribly tolerant of all the weird stuff I do with him)

On the same token, I think historically you can disqualify a Quarter Horse that looks to AQH. When you see an American Quarter horse, you know it is a QH. Rather typy for ACW. So I think to disallow a color is not "correct" but may be if you have a record that shows the coloration of every horse in the unit throughout the units history during that the time period.

But Paints, palominos, and appies existed as horse colors long before they were officially recognized as "breeds". You will find the horse colors in painting dating back before the 1st century AD. One of my favorite Ming Dynasty horses is a palomino.

As far as what we want to do or currently do... I think this forum kind of started off with an assumption so you probably won't find any info on the "What we plan to do."

Members from various LH groups come from a variety of equestrian backgrounds. Several folks here have been or still are members of jousting troups, others are members of other equestrian groups in ACW, and the like. Some of us just enjoy riding and hamming it up with our fav equine buddy. I think almost everyone will be demonstrating a little of everything. I can't speak for everybody, but it is a general impression that I get.

I know Bob and I are interested in the military aspect of maneuvers and usage of cavalry in 15th c Burgundy. Others it is the thrill of the Joust and the desire to put together a historically accurate tourney.

I think it would be a lark to put together a noble hunting party for an afternoon and end it with a "picnic" or a feast. (Whatta ya say Gwen? )

I would be interested in finding out the "horsie" games you have discovered during your research.

I hope I didn't babble too much...it is late on the East coast and my brain turned to mush about 3 hours ago.

Our "Bella" is a Percheron/Morgan cross. 15.2 / 1,600#. She's a bit big barreled and short legged, but if she were any taller Jeff couldn't mount from the ground in armour. She was our first choice, and as you say of your horse, she's incredibly tolerant (even enthusiastic) about what we ask her to do.

(In no particular order)

1) Mounted sword combat
2) Quintain
3) Rings
4) Marching / drilling with the troops
5) PR at events, Faires and schools (she seems to love kids and is incredibly gentle and careful where she puts her feet when around them)
6) Parades
7) Jousting someday. She's doing passes and light contact right now.

I have some great photos from the last event, I'll see if I can't post them later today.

Bella got to play football at the last event, and even scored a goal...

We got Normandie a Stall Ball for his birthady that he likes to fling and kick around from time to time.

I’ve never seen a Appoloosa horse in cavalry paintings etc (but bear in mind I only really know about UK sources !) Pinto (or to us piebald & skewbald) Are seen as drummers horses I think, but I’ve not seen them as straight cavalry.

Not sure this helps !!!

Our unit doesn’t specify ! Better a safe horse of any colour than a danger & the correct colour IMHO. Not sure how they would feel about coloureds maybe in Harness would be OK.

Your hunting party idea sounds like great fun !!

Here it is wet dark & horrid, not much of anything happening

Most of the Living History/Re-enactment groups on the board (US and abroad) tend to address this issue within their groups. Most of the members of Wolfe Argent, have owned (and plan to own again), have been around, or currently own horses. We have a mixture of riding capabilities from "street" to competive riding skill levels (western and english). Most of our members with the exception of a one or two, have met the two horses currently in the group, though I think another member just upped the group's equine membership by one.

It is a good idea and Red Co. does this, is to get members familiar enough with the horses so they know what to do in the event of an emergency or just how to behave around them.

If you have members who are afraid of horses or just don't want anything to do with them, then they should still be given the "to dos" and "not to dos" so that there aren't any accidents.

Jenn

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That has to be one of the absolute best ideas anyone has come up with yet. Since we (RedCo.) have several new members who are unfamiliar with horses, I think I'll sit down and write something before the event. Thanks for a great suggestion!!!!!

I'm an SCA knight, I wear big jangly spurs, I'm nice to people, and I most assuredly know the ends of a horse.

Good for you! You're in the minority on all but the second count. Pleased to meet you!

If anyone would like an attached email copy of it for reference, please let me know.

Brenna

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As ARMET is to be a set of umbella guidelines, I thought a page of basic equine guidlines would be good because there are groups out there who have very little horse savy and sooner or later they'll run into the beasts in question. A little foreknowledge can prevent a world of grief.
Thanks Gwen.