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Author Topic: Civilian guidelines
hauptfrau
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posted 10-02-2000 11:26 AM     Profile for hauptfrau     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
For clarity's sake I'm copying I'm reposting Jenn's comments to begin this thread.

Gwen

Obviously when we set up and take down camps, modern clothing, beverages (in modern cans), and what have you should can allowed.

However, I think starting that evening (depending on arrival times and how long it takes to setup) or definitely wakeup call the following morning, the modern stuff "disappears": including timetravel devices like electronic leashes(pagers, cellphones,etc...) unless they can be concealed and are on none music mode or you have some reason why you absolutely have to have this device on your person.

Suspended should be modern coversation such as computers and the Wallstreet journal especially if the goal is total imersion and use of a cleverly researched and crafted personae. It ruins the atmosphere when someone is talking about what the town crier had to say about Louis the spider king, while someone else is taking about Bill Gates. As a modern, believe me, it isn't easy to walk into the past and leave the 20th c behind, but it is the only way to gain some insight, besides, you'll be back to the 20th on Sunday afternoon.

It is important I think that if the public is involved, that care be taken to maintain a "historical" feel. I wouldn't be wearing my Raybans with a cellphone in one hand and a diet coke in the other.

What do we think minimum clothing standards should be and what about defining colors and material and for what class of people?
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Originally posted by FireStryker to the "ARMET discussion" thread, 10-1


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hauptfrau
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posted 10-02-2000 11:55 AM     Profile for hauptfrau     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
This is what RedCo. has on our website regarding "Deportment"- I think it covers most of the bases:

-----begin--------

General guidelines for 15th Century events

These are the concept guidelines for 15th C. living history events sponsored by The Red Company. These guidelines will give potential participants some idea of our goals so they can prepare appropriately, or perhaps, decide that this may not be for them.

Authenticity: This will be the cornerstone of all events. We are not looking for large numbers of participants, rather, we are looking for like minded participants who understand the goals of these events and are willing to do what it takes do it right. This is not intended as a dig against any other historically inspired group or program, but our events are not like SCA, Adria, Renaissance Faire or any other group- style event. There is only one historical time and place depicted, and all participants must conform to that time and place in their clothing and presentation. All clothing, tentage and equipment must be documentable and typical of the period. This requirement applies equally to jewelry and accessories (no neo-pagan stuff, Ren Faire favors etc.).

While events are undoubtedly a lot of fun for the participants, the Red Company is an educational organization which looks upon it as a public trust to maintain a high degree of authenticity. One of the reasons we do this is to educate a public which is bombarded endlessly with incorrect information about the Middle Ages from movies and TV.

Individuals not connected to the Red Company should contact the sponsoring group for more participation information before assembling kit or planning to participate at an event

Combat: There will be no SCA/Adria/ Renfaire style combat or armor. All armour and weapons will be "live" or historically correct recreations of practice weapons.

Language: While it would be great if we could all talk like something out of Thos. Mallory, it ain't going to happen, so just speak in normal, or if you can manage it, accented English, and avoid modernisms like "Okay". Feel free to throw in an occasional "Thee" and "Thou", provided you know how to use them correctly. From sunup of the official start day (this excludes setup) all participants should be in costume and character.

Scenario: The scenario will vary from event to event, but the time is always 1470 or 1471, and involves the military and civilian supporters of the Yorkist cause.

The soldiers drill, work on equipment and practice, while women carry on with domestic duties. They are usually joined by the people of the village where they are billeted. All divert themselves from the impending battle with games, dancing and fraternizing with the locals.From sunup of the official start day (this excludes setup) all anachronisms should be hidden, and modern topics of conversation suspended or reworded appropriately. (You can still have a sister in DeMoines, you just have to say "my sister sent word" instead of "My sister called and left a message on my answering machine". That sort of thing)

Characters / Portrayals: All characters should be someone who would plausibly be found in England or the Continent in the 1470s. Soldiers or camp followers should be predominantly English, Flemish, German, or Italian. The civilians should be entirely English. There will be only a few of the upper classes present, and those will be prearranged people portraying the knight and his train. Everyone else should portray a common soldier, a low born camp follower, an artisan, a peasant, a yeoman or a member of the clergy as a Priest or Friar.

For costume requirements, please see the Costume Guidelines section

Terms of Service: Participation in events is always on a volunteer basis. The income we derive is only enough to cover the costs of insurance, publicity and things like firewood and straw. As much as we would like to pay everyone, we will have to do this for the love of it, and the desire to see some quality medieval living history done on this coast of this continent.

The Schedule: Please consult the event flyer for the schedule for each event.

Activities: Each event usually runs for several days, with at least one day open to the public, as published. The public will be encouraged to make a small donation to get in. During the public program, all anachronisms should be hidden, and all participants should be in costume and character. Among the projected activities are usually a full muster with some drill, an archery contest, jousting and martial exercise. Civilian activities generally including cooking, dancing to live music, perhaps a football game, a religious procession or ceremony, etc.

Lodging: Only period appropriate canvas tentage in a suitable style is acceptable at events. There are no exceptions for RVs or modern tents.

Vendors: Suitable merchants are always welcome to participate. To be suitable, a merchant must have all sales staff in appropriate costume, all tentage and furnishings must be historically correct, and all wares must be correct for 15th Century England (i.e. no mystic runes, no modern books or CDs, no Celtic Revival jewelry, no dragon goblets or canes with dragon claw mystic crystal handles etc.). Nothing but the modern money changing hands should be unsuitable to the period. Vendors who sell everyday things like articles of clothing, metal findings, suitable table ware, weapons and the like are especially welcome. Please note that almost nothing that is customarily sold at a Renaissance Faire, and very little that is sold at an SCA event would meet these criteria.

Conduct: Participants are expected to behave like responsible adults and good neighbors for the duration of the event. Participants engaged in public or excessive drunkenness, lewd, illegal or obnoxious behavior are all grounds for ejection from the site at the sponsor's discretion.

---end--------

We have a separate section going into clothing details, but I think if anyone has further questions they could contact the sponsor or a local participating group. I think Jeff and I would like to leave as much to the discretion of the individual reenactor as possible. I believe many groups have too many rules- I REALLY support the "like minded participants who understand the goals of these events and are willing to do what it takes do it right. " concept. I'd rather open my tent flap and see 5 tents and 10 people looking like they just stepped out of the Schilling Chronicles than have to ride herd on 50 tents and 100 people.

Being a policeman would DEFINITELY kill my buzz.......

Gwen



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Fire Stryker
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posted 10-02-2000 02:11 PM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
By no means should we be rules lawyers, just as long as guidelines are laid out for participation.
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Jamie & Christine
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posted 10-04-2000 12:46 AM     Profile for Jamie & Christine   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Gwen said:
Participants engaged in public or excessive drunkenness, lewd, illegal or obnoxious behavior are all grounds for ejection from the site at the sponsor's discretion.
Gosh, I guess that counts us out...
Jamie

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chef de chambre
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posted 10-04-2000 05:45 AM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi All,

One thing that I think we should all keep in mind is the purpose of ARMET. As a co-founder, I see it being a medium for groups to come together and participate - the guidelines facilitating that.

We need to keep any guidelines as simple as possible, and define the bare minimum required for participation. If we make them too complicated, or we start setting internal standards for other groups, we will be an orginization of a couple of companies rather than a means of facilitating interaction between the budding re-enactment and living history groups across the country.

I think we need to keep the civilian guidelines to something like - clothing should be of a historical pattern appropriate to the timeframe of the event, and made of historicaly correct materials (wool, linen, etc.) and suitable to the station of the person portrayed.

I also think that we need emphasise also no Fantasy portrayals - i.e no Wizards, hobbits, vampires & elves. and no Renn faire roles such as'travelers' (gypsies), or other made up stock characters.

Oh yes, no 'time travelling' at events, unless we are participating in a timeline event.

I just want to get in my two groats for ARMET being a means of facilitating Medieval re-enactment as known in Europe in this country.

------------------
Bob R.


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hauptfrau
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posted 10-04-2000 11:22 AM     Profile for hauptfrau     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Who does the final editing of these guidelines and at what point?

Gwen


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chef de chambre
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posted 10-04-2000 11:01 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Gwen,

Well, as Alliances are negotiated agreements beneficial to two or more parties and mutualy agreed upon, I guess we hash it out, and when we come up with guidelines agreeable to the initial companies involved in ARMET, whichever party who wishes can 'write it down in stone'. Those companies who desire to join after the initial guidelines are agreed to are presented with an existing document, and yea or nay it as they will - sort of like countries petitioning to join NATO over the past decade who were not present for the formative talks. You join or not based on whether you agree or not.

I look to the successful ACW, Rev War, and English Civil War movements as models for an umbrella orginization for Medieval re-enactment. In all these orginizations, you have units that are on different levels that manage to interact successfuly with each other.

You have your 'Farbs' - these are they guys you find trying to justify using in the field the rarest of equipment (because it's "cool") barely documentable. They are also the guys you catch smoking ciggarettes, wearing wristwatches (usually concealed by their sleeve, but they consult their watches at the most innapropriate time imaginable), and they leave modern gear in the open from time to time. Most groups snicker at them, but they 'deal' with them.

Next you have your average joe re-enactors, who do their best, and usually give a very good impression. Being TBG's of middle age (tubby bearded guys), they like their creature comforts, and travel heavier equipment wise than their historical counterparts ever did. Their gear is all decent though, and while they have modern convieniences, they keep them concealed. Oh yeah, they bring their families along, all in correct dress, but this causes the last group in 19th c. re-enactment (hardcore) distress, as civilian camp followers have no place in American victorian era military camps immeadiatly prior to battle, or on campaign (they are very appropriate for earlier periods though usually).

Lastly, you have the 'hardcore' re-enactors. At the good end of the scale, they are a fantastic looking bunch (I know of a great ACW infantry impression where they only carry what they can on the march on their backs - civillians verbotten. They sleep in impromptu 'shebangs' consisting of ponchos strung up on muskets - everything is right down to their underwear, dirt & all - I hope to God my pal 'stinky' - their seargent - doesn't have the appropriate lice though.) At the bad end, they are a cantankerous bunch of stitch counters who can find no good in anybody elses efforts, and who are very divisive to the community of re-enactment as a whole. At worst, they misinterpret documentation, and impliment it on their kit - insisting they are right no matter what the evidence. A classic example is the 'button pee'ers' in the late 80's in ACW. One confederate re-enactor who was very respected examined many extant garments and noted the corrosion on the brass buttons. In order to emulate this, he cut off his buttons, and soaked them in urine to 'distress' them. Nobody could point out to him that these buttons he was looking at hadn't been polished in 130 + years, and that seargents tend to fill up ones idle hours with the mindless task of polishing metal to instill discipline in armies since the 18th c. People even pointed out references to cleaning uniforms in diaries & letters, but as far as I know this fellow is coinvinced of extreme patina on metalwork to this day. Caused a number of amusing letters to be published in "Camp Chase Gazette" though.

What is my point in catagorizing these re-enactors? Units like these can be found in every period of re-enactment, and in most cases, all work together & enrich the hobby. They are able to work together because they have a clearly defined minimum standard that all understand & agree to. Their clothing is of the correct material, and of the right 'cut'. The equipment they have is all documented to the time they are portraying - they are just at different levels of personal authenticity. You put them all on the field (in ACW), and you are fielding and manouvering full scale brigades & divisions. They have no real glaring innacuracies that stand out - from any distance they will look like proper soldiers (too many fat guys for real ones, and quite a bit are greyer than they ought to be). The Hardcore hard case will be cursing the rebs in the 1861 scenario who all have enfield rifled muskets - not because the enfields didn't exist, but because most rebs in 1861 had older weapons, and will also be cursing the union fellows with too much brass on their bummers in 1863 (all US army regulation, but mostly taken off by that point in the field). I am just happy to see and interact with all the by - God looks for real like civil war soldiers on the field.

I think the key for us to thrive as a 'period' is to have that understood minimum standard achieved in these other successful orginizations. We have to have a means of groups who aren't on the same level of the hardcore groups interact. I assure you we can make this standard to remove the grievious & unconcealable errors that would immediatly offend the eye - modern shoes, synthetic cloth & blends, and incorrect clothing to the time . If we set the standard to a level that intimidates people who either would start a company, or would intimidate from joining an existing one, we will be two lonely companies - one on the East Coast, and one on the West.

I think a happy medium can be reached, and that ARMET can serve as a bridge for people to join us in true Medieval re-enactment. We do not want it to be a wall keeping people out.

------------------
Bob R.


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Martin
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posted 05-06-2004 01:37 AM     Profile for Martin     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

[ 09-01-2004: Message edited by: Martin ]

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Verpa es, qui istuc leges. Non es fidenter scripto!


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