I'm looking into the existence/general use or otherwise of quivers in hunting. Mainly C15th, but evidence from any medieval period would be interesting to me.

Thus far the only image I can find is this:
Wikipedia Commons: Medieval Women Hunting
I don't know the date of it, the quiver is difficult to see and as this is an entirely female party I'm not particularly inclined to take anything much at face value. I can't work out how the quiver is being worn either - the strap seems to belong to the horn.

In other images (from John Cummins' The Hound and the Hawk: The Art of Medieval Hunting) showing hunting with bows I can see the fletched ends of arrows projecting from behind the archer's back towards his right, as they would be if they were either stuck through his belt behind him or in some sort of angled quiver behind him. They're fanned out somewhat, however, which suggests to me the belt rather than a quiver.

It seems to me that a quiver would be particularly important when using broadheads as there are cutting edges present rather than the relatively easy to avoid points of bodkins. Maybe this is just modern ideas of safety getting me though, as also in John Cummins' book is a picture of a crossbow hunter with a quiver full of broadheads point up. I do see the sense in this when it comes to selecting an appropriate head (though his are all drawn the same) and in avoiding messing up the fletches in withdrawal, but it still seems a little crazy!

The Mary Rose arrow bags wouldn't work, of course.

Thanks to anyone who can offer any information.

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Sorry not to have posted before.

First, "the Mary Rose arrow bags" ... It's probably worth noting that the majority of the arrows found on the Mary Rose were in what were, for want of a better description, wooden ammunition boxes (much like the larger boxes for the bows).

This seems to have been the most common means of transportation (though the Swiss Schilling chronicles also so larger rigid (?) bags too.

The evidence for the bags comes from the spacers which other period illustrations(well generally slightly earlier ... which is good as then they're medieval rather than Tudor/Renaissance as per Mary Rose) and a later description (with diagram) show them as cloth bags with draw strings at the fletching end and straw & a draw string at the heads. The comparison illustrations do show these bags being worn at the belt, and with the top (fletching end) undone and folded down.

So don't dismiss the 'Mary Rose arrow bags' as belt worn repositories of arrows.

However there is a least one illustration (Ricart's Mayor's Calendar of Bristol c.1480) which shows an archer with a small pouch-like bag at the belt which is only large enough to hold the heads (the shafts are still through the belt).

The only reference to the term Quiver I can think of comes from the Household accounts of Sir John Howard, however since if I recall correctly it was with a lock ... I suspect in this context the quiver is what we would call a box/crate.

The Howards accounts also mention arrow gridles. This I find much more interesting ... a belt specifically for arrows. This would fit the illustration I mentioned above, and possibly explain why archers were able to carry arrows in this way.

Indeed the presence in illustrations of 'quivers' for crossbowmens bolts but not of 'quivers' for archers argues strongly that they were not used.

If I get a chance I'll take a look and see what i can find out anything else

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I think these are western images of eastern hunters.
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=Mandragore&O=08101684&E=2 30&I=117201&M=imageseule
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=Mandragore&O=08101685&E=2 09&I=118521&M=imageseule

Here's a western ones showing the belt method.
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=Mandragore&O=07904160&E=1&I= 46131&M=imageseule
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h97/ordoteutonicorum/macarcher1.jpg

Western with quiver early examples not necessarily hunting.
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=Mandragore&O=7830832&E=1&I=74 679&M=imageseule

[ 09-07-2007: Message edited by: Fire Stryker ]

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[ 09-07-2007: Message edited by: Fire Stryker ]

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The book on Polish archery I have (Polska Bron Luk i Kusza) has a couple of paintings from the middle ages with people hunting on foot with belt quivers. They are similar to the Turcoman Turkish quiver shown here:
http://www.atarn.org/islamic/patterns/turcoman_turkish.jpg

specifically the one in the upper left corner but without the reinforcement strips.

Do you have any pictures of the wooden arrow boxes you mentioned? Or can you describe them in enough detail to build one? I'd love to shed my plastic arrow box in favor of something period correct.

I'm especially interested in how the arrows were stored on the interior. My plastic one uses foam to keep the arrows separate and the fletching in nice shape. I'm wondering if they did something similar with leather or wood, or if the arrows were just tossed in the box.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Jachim:
Dave,

Do you have any pictures of the wooden arrow boxes you mentioned? Or can you describe them in enough detail to build one? I'd love to shed my plastic arrow box in favor of something period correct.

I'm especially interested in how the arrows were stored on the interior. My plastic one uses foam to keep the arrows separate and the fletching in nice shape. I'm wondering if they did something similar with leather or wood, or if the arrows were just tossed in the box.

Ron

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Ron,

I'll try and dig out the reports on them from the Mary Rose (so remember ... mid C16th). However, from memory they were simply elm plank boxes big enough to take (I think) 48 arrows with boxes 2 arrows in length and with the heads next to each other in the centre. But I'll see if I ca find the report

Had a quick look ... the arrow boxes were

4 long planks (including lid) 19mm thick, 2 end squares with 2 holes in each for rope handles, lids 25mm bigger then 'crate'. All nailed together (including lid)
Size: 1930 x 381 x 305 mm
7 of this type found, 5 with arrows in situ
arrows tied with cord in sheaves of 24 arrows. One box had 39 sheaves (so probably 40 sheaves was 'full') packed with 2 sheaves down length with heads touching in the centre.

The small pouch worn on the belt (from the Calendar of Bristol) is interesting, I shall have to track that one down and look at the context. Any idea where I might be able to find the images?

This is leading me to think that hunting broadheads must have been used in a significantly more blunt state then than today, which is somewhat surprising to me. I thought that the razor edge of today was unlikely, and would probably have been considered too fragile and therefore pointless and excessive work, particularly amongst career men as opposed to todays hobbyists. I was expecting a good 'working' knife edge, however, but even that seems unlikely if the heads are habitually carried unguarded.

Perhaps there is a bow power issue here. Most US states allow hunting with 40lb bows on all game, including bison and bears (you wouldn't catch me shooting a bear with a 40lb bow!). In order for an arrow from a 40lb bow to penetrate a large animal sufficiently to kill or immobilise perhaps a razor edge is necessary. Might medieval men have been hunting with much heavier bows? Given that a typical modern composite recurve drawing 40lb has a far higher power than any but the finest 40lb self bow, we are talking about a serious difference in draw weight.

This is just musing, now, but I would love to hear viewpoints from any interested parties.