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Author Topic: I want to be a coustillier,right?
hendrik de coster
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Member # 11050

posted 03-23-2010 10:18 AM     Profile for hendrik de coster     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello everybody, currently I'm workig on my personna and I'dd like your opinion/take on it.
here's the list of things my personna must be:
-period for 1450-1475
-burgundian, flemish preferably
-should have a private tent(only a small one though)
-has a complete italian export harness like the armour of Friedrich Kurfürst von der Pfalz( my armour is based upo this one)
-fights preferably with a pollaxe/bec de corbin

the first and most obvoius choice would be a man at arms. however I see various reasons when going this way; first(and biggest) of all,I wouldn't be "allowed" to work anymore, no more helping with preparing food etc. Atleast, I believe it is? this is highly unpractical from a realistic point of view and so a man at arms wouldn't be an option (although I do already have all the military equipment, save the lance and 3 horses).
this then led me to either a valet or a coustillier. of these 2 a coustillier would be the most logical choice I believe for a personna who will be fighting a lot.

so now the questions:
1) could it be possible a coustillier had a complete italian export armour? would/could he be using a pollaxe?
2) would it be possible (or even better,was it normal) a coustillier had his own private tent?
3)how would a coustillier be dressed most of the times? would he be dressed rather fancy in a nice pleated coat, finished with fur etc like seen on many 15th century paintings. or would he be dressed more military,wearing a burgundian livery?
4) would a coustillier be able/allowed to help in the household of a camp? eg help my mother when preparing dinner, start a fire etc)

any more information you have about a coustillier would be greatly apreciated!
cheers! Hendrik


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Fire Stryker
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posted 03-25-2010 08:54 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello Hendrik,

I'll pass this along to Bob he may have some ideas.

Jenn

--------------------

ad finem fidelis


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hendrik de coster
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Member # 11050

posted 03-25-2010 09:25 AM     Profile for hendrik de coster     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
well thank you! i'm looking forward to his insight on the subject. I have started the same topic on another website(the armourarchive) but currently it's fruitless
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Fire Stryker
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posted 03-25-2010 10:54 AM     Profile for Fire Stryker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm sure that people will eventually answer. Sometimes they're not sure especially if it's not their particular area of interest.

I've alerted Bob so he'll either answer here, or on the Armour Archive.

--------------------

ad finem fidelis


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chef de chambre
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posted 03-25-2010 12:39 PM     Profile for chef de chambre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Hendrick,

A full suit of plate would mark you out as a man at arms. A half harness, centered around a brigandine rather than a cuirasse is almost as much armour, and opens up many more possibilities.

I answered regarding the private tent concept on the Archive - an infantryman or coustillier would not have one, they would be either billeted with the other members of their lance, in either a tent, or just as likely someones barn or outbuilding. The size of issue of tents to the Burgundian army gives the impression that in many cases, perhaps only the mounted men at arms might have had tents. A German knight who served in Charles the Bolds army, up until after Grandson, shared a tent with a number of other men at arms, we know about it only because he complains in a letter about the garrison of Grandson (Swiss), being hanged in a walnut tree that their tent sat under, and how the corpses feet were bulging the tent roof, as the tree branch sagged - something he found repugnant.

A coutillier, when not in harness on duty, would dress in standard vcivil clothing. For someone who might even be a gentleman (a lot of coustilliers were apparently men at arms down on their luck, without the full equipment to serve as a man at arms, many were just middle class as well - one who saved Charles the Bolds life at Montlehery in 1465 was the son of a medical doctor), this would include mahioitered sleeved doublets, and likely a fashionable gown in wool. The fur would be something you would see late Autumn into Spring, lots of pleated gowns were not fur lined. IN Renee of Anjou's various books, you see a ton of pleated gowns without fur trim or lining, and if most of your activity is going to be in the Late Spring, Summer, or early Fall, you would want one like that before having one with fur.

You would wear shoes around camp,, your boots would be reserved for riding, when you were about to ride, or just after riding. A hat would be a must, probably a tall Flemish hat at this point in time.

If I were you, by the description you give, I would go for a nice brigandine, and a complete set of Italian export arms, sallet, and bevor, a standard of mail, voiders, and a mail skirt, and spend $$300-$400 on a pair of reproduction boots, instead of $1500 on a pair of complete legs with cased greaves.

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Bob R.


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hendrik de coster
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Member # 11050

posted 03-25-2010 12:59 PM     Profile for hendrik de coster     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
thanks for the reply bob! it is really helpfull! i will talk on further here.
one thing I must mention is that I already have ordered a breastplate based upon the friedrich armour
here are some pictures of what my armourer made of it: http://www.armorymarek.com/public/default/userfiles/image/cuirass/qq.jpg
http://www.armorymarek.com/public/default/userfiles/image/cuirass/we.jpg

would owning a cuirass like this "force" me to be a man at arms? I'd rather not be one since i'd need a valet and would be somehow elevated above other members of our company( and while that is historically correct I am not a fan of making myself someone of a higher status


I also like the information you gave me about the when not in harnas clothing.
currently I already have a mahioitered sleeved doublet and have made some acorn hats too.
to go over my doublet I was thinking of a livery like coat in blue and white with a red st andrews cross.

maybe it is helpfull if I put up a list of the equipement;both military and civilian to see what my personna should be?

[ 03-25-2010: Message edited by: hendrik de coster ]


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