It is for an extant saddle from the mid 16th century. What I find interesting is that it retains the "steels" of the earlier saddle but also has the leather padded thigh rolls more commonly seen by the 17th century. It is possibly a very nice "transistional" type of piece.
http://www.the-wallace-collection.org.uk/e_n/e/s/saddle_index.htm

Brenna

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The Wallace collection actually has another very similar saddle from the same period, as well - I think they are dated about 10 years apart.

Actually I have seen "similar" ones but never one with this type of thigh rolls AND the steels over the cantle and pommel. If you have a link to the "similar" saddle, I would love to check it out.

Thanks,
Brenna

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Unfortunately, I don't think there's a link to it - I simply saw it when I visited the Wallace collection last.

This shows a saddle from the 1630's. It still retains the more bottle shaped thigh rolls of the one from 1549 but the steels of cantle and pommel have completely disappeared. I think it is fair to assume however this is a military saddle given the title of the picture and martial nature of the objects surrounding the saddle.

The pommel rolls are more in character with the modern Australian stock saddle than the modern Iberian ones which are pretty much considered to be direct descendants the saddles in use for haute ecole in the 17th century. I think it is also interesting that the apex of the pommel is almost "horn"
shaped. I have seen this type of shaping on extant "old" Hungarian saddles but not with a solid date associated with them. Isn't Lieden in modern Germany? Perhaps that accounts for the combination of western and eastern European influences.

Brenna

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Brenna ]

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It may or may not surprise you to know that many earlier saddlers in the UK and other regions, were in fact from regions of Germany. So in art work throughout the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries and later, you see an Central European influence in pommel and general shape of many saddles.

Leiden is in the Netherlands. Gerrit Dou, the painter who produced the work was Dutch.

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the burplates for the saddle have disappeared but the cantle still seems to be backed by steel. There are a series of heavy tacks/rivets, and what, upon closer inspection appears to be etching in the cantle piece. There is also a bit of "reflectance" to the edge of the cantle which is suggestive of metal.

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I think from the image, any certain interpretation would be next to impossible. I have seen several types of this saddle that had a hardened leather cantle back that was riveted through to the tree underneath. From the image, it could be that as well and hardened leather could also have a reflective sheen.

Either interpretation could be correct.

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So in art work throughout the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries and later, you see an Central European influence in pommel and general shape of many saddles.

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I would be interested in some dates for that particular pommel design. The only extant examples I have come across were 15th and 16th century Hungarian. Do you have some images you can refer to me to that might show some English, French or Spanish saddles from the 15th or 16th centuries with that pommel?

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"I have seen several types of this saddle..."

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Do you have any visual references you can share or websites you can point me to?

I haven't had a chance to thoroughly go through a friend's armour book collection, but there are quite a few different saddles in it, and there was one volume in particular that seemed to contain a lot. They may have been Italian. I won't know until I get a chance to go back and look.

I was not making allusions to that specific pommel design. So I cannot point to any references at the moment that would show that particular one, especially not in the "South". If I come across any I will post them.

Jenn

You can look at my photo album on Yahoo for starters. These are images of extant English Civil War period saddles. The cantle is very similar to the one from the Lieden picture but they are leather. I particularly like the Scottish saddle as it comes with a diagram of the tree. I was amazed at the similarity of the tree to the modern English saddle.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/acelynn01/lst?.dir=/Mail+Attachments

They were sent to me by ECW re-enactors from Britain. I can privately forward you more info if you like

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Originally posted by Acelynn:
Hello Dixon,

They were sent to me by ECW re-enactors from Britain. I can privately forward you more info if you like

Ace

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