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Author
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Topic: Cuir bouilli breastplate?
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Bertus
Member
Member # 308
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posted 09-06-2002 09:44 PM
   
Hi, I was just wondering today. Has there ever been proof of the existence of cuir bouilli breastplates? Particularly in the 1350's/60' in france and/or germany? I vaguely remember reading somewhere that in some household wardrobes 'solid breastplates' are being mentioned since the late 13th c. and that these might be of boiled leather since it doesn't explain what the 'solid material' consists of (sorry, don't know the source, might even be this board). Also, assuming that splinted armour was made of boiled leather as a foundation, it makes it easy to say that cuir bouilli breastplates might also have existed. Perhaps being worn by the men-at-arms who couldn't afford a metal breastplate. Anyone any thoughts on this brainstorm of mine?Bertus -------------------- Bertus Brokamp
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chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4
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posted 09-08-2002 01:06 PM
Hi All,There is an excellent article regarding transitional armour in Italy, and exploring cuir armours, and the methods of probable manufacture in a Military Illustrated c 1999. It referenced such armours in inventories, but I unfortunately do not have it to hand, being out of town at the moment. Suffice it to say that it does provide some decent documentation for such armours - of course there are none extant - save for a mid 14th century rerebrace in the Royal Armoury. The indication is that such armours were hardened though, not soft or flexible. Perhaps the construction of such articles would allow for hinging, rather than trying to force them to flex to put on. -------------------- Bob R.
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Bertus
Member
Member # 308
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posted 09-08-2002 02:58 PM
Hi Bob!I would be very obliged if you could tell me how to come by this article. I spend the last 1/2 hour searching the web for someone selling old issues, but alas. Also the dutch universities don't seem to own any issues. I'm at a loss now. Bertus -------------------- Bertus Brokamp
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chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4
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posted 09-08-2002 05:09 PM
Hi Herman,We are in process of moving house, and so my library is in dissarray. That said, I'll look for the article for you, and let you know the issue and such. I may be able to photocopy and send it to you. -------------------- Bob R.
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Bertus
Member
Member # 308
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posted 09-09-2002 03:30 AM
Thanks! 
That would be great.
I hope the moving is getting along well.Bertus -------------------- Bertus Brokamp
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David Meyer
Member
Member # 245
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posted 09-11-2002 12:54 PM
Hi Bob -If you happen to come upon that article in the chaos of moving (can I ever relate) I would love a copy/scan. And now for the best advice on packing I ever received: don't stop moving. Regards and energy David
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Craig Nadler
Member
Member # 7
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posted 09-11-2002 05:03 PM
Herman:You may want to look at the following book if you haven't already. "Leather and the Warrior: An account of the importance of leather to the fighting man from the time of the ancient Greeks to World War II" by John W. Waterer
Hardcover; 180 pages + a 20 page introduction; 158 photos (mostly b/w with a few color) (1981) The Museum of Leathercraft; Northampton, England; ISBN: 0950418218 -------------------- Craig Nadler
cwn@nh.ultranet.com http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~cwn/armour.shtml
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Bertus
Member
Member # 308
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posted 09-11-2002 06:50 PM
Hey Craig thanks! That looks like a very relevant title! I also see Claude Blair was consultant editor. I'll go search out this book .Bertus -------------------- Bertus Brokamp
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chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4
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posted 09-17-2002 06:24 AM
Hi Herman,I found the cover to the issue in question (which became seperated from the rest of the mag), but unfortunately not the article yet. The articles name is "Revolution in Steel" - which despite the title examines the case for cuir-bolli armour in transitional forms in Italy in the 14th century. I believe the issue is 127, but since in my haste last night I forgot the cover at the condo, it might be 129. If it is, I will clarify. I hope this helps. -------------------- Bob R.
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Bertus
Member
Member # 308
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posted 09-17-2002 04:02 PM
The linkhttp://www.brothersgrymme.org/arador/forum/archives/199902/messages/497.html Comes up with this: -------------------------------------
Posted by D2 on February 10, 1999 at 18:36:57:
Hi, Everyone! Number 129 of the periodical "Military Illustrated"
just appeared on the magazine rack at my local Barnes
and Noble bookstore. There is an article entitled
"Revolution in Steel ... Arms and Armour of Italian
Knights" with some nice contemporary illustrations
by the Italian scholar E. T. Coelho (the article
itself is by Raymond E. Role). The focus of the
illustrations is 14th Cent. armours. This is a brief, but nice overview of these armours
and weapons. You might want to check it out. - David
------------------------------------------- So I guess it's issue 129 and not 127.
And it appears 129 is for sale here: http://www.friendshobby.com/html/Sales/PagePHb.htm It states: "MILITARY ILLUSTRATED 129, SLOVAK $ 4.95" But what does the 'Slovak' description mean? That the issue is all about slovak WWII weaponry? ... -------------------- Bertus Brokamp
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chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4
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posted 09-17-2002 05:16 PM
Hi Herman,That is the issue - the 'Slovak' reference is to an article on 'Hitlers Slovak Elite' - the magazine covers a number of other articles, including the Italian transitional armour. -------------------- Bob R.
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David Meyer
Member
Member # 245
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posted 09-17-2002 08:01 PM
Hi Jenn/Bob -If it's not too much trouble, could you email me a copy at "dapmeyer@mac.com" as well? Regards David
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chef de chambre
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 4
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posted 09-17-2002 09:17 PM
Hi David,When we stumble across it, we'll send it along. -------------------- Bob R.
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Brian Duoglass
New Member
Member # 366
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posted 10-04-2002 03:48 AM
I too would like a copy for a friend just getting into armouring and lacking a computer. THanks in advance,
BRian -------------------- Extorque Removere
(twist to remove)
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David Meyer
Member
Member # 245
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posted 11-30-2002 05:29 AM
Hi Jenn/Chef -If you guys happen to happen to get a chance to scan that article, it'd be lovely to get a copy! Perhaps I could sweeten the deal with some pictures of Paresian 15th C. brigandines in the Musee de l'arme and in the Cluny?? Regards David
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Fire Stryker
Admin & Advocatus Diaboli
Member # 2
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posted 12-01-2002 11:53 AM
We're just glad it was useful to you.Jenn -------------------- ad finem fidelis
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
posted 09-17-2002 07:27 PM
